Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

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Limestone66
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Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Limestone66 »

Good afternoon to all, and 'Happy 4Th of July'. Since i am still gathering the necessary parts i need for my 'Brake' upgrade, i still need to upgrade my current ignition system. I was wondering if anybody has used the 'Pertronics' 'Flame thrower dizzy on any of their motors and mainly the 352. Thanks in advance for any help on this.
Long live the 352

........Ron..........

1966 Ford F250 Custom Cab {Longbox}
1996 Toyota Camry {Wifes ride}
1940 Harley Davidson knucklehead {Retired in 2006, gave to one of my sons in 2010}
1975 Harley Davidson XLH {Groundpounder}
2005 Harley Davidson Deluxe {Nostalgia} Almost home 'girl'

In memory of Donald G. Roswell- My freind and 'brother'.
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Uncle Skip
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Uncle Skip »

Nadine has had one since day one.
10 years and never a hiccup.
You do need a hotter coil though.
I'm not arguing with you. I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Pardon me. Does your deaug bite?
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Limestone66
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Limestone66 »

Summit has 'em for just under $250. Thought about buying the damn thing along with the flame thrower coil and new wires. That should do the trick.
Long live the 352

........Ron..........

1966 Ford F250 Custom Cab {Longbox}
1996 Toyota Camry {Wifes ride}
1940 Harley Davidson knucklehead {Retired in 2006, gave to one of my sons in 2010}
1975 Harley Davidson XLH {Groundpounder}
2005 Harley Davidson Deluxe {Nostalgia} Almost home 'girl'

In memory of Donald G. Roswell- My freind and 'brother'.
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Paul Merrell
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Paul Merrell »

Just keep the points in case you need them. I use it on my truck with the flame coil works great. But never leave the key on without the engine running it will make the coil get hot and the oil will run out and then the engine will not run.
"Never underestimate the power of your actions. With one small gesture you can change a person's life - For better...or for worse." 1965 F250 4wheeldrive 390/4speed/dana 60 rear 3.73/dana 44/PB
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by oldtrucks »

Pertronix is a good system and I have used their points replacement with good results BUT. The ignition system I use is the dura spark system with a couple of modifications. The duraspark distributer is very reliable and accurate. It is the only part I use of the duraspark system. I use a dry coil from a late model computerised system and an MSD ignition box. The dry coil requires a full 12 volts so a new 12 volt switched electrical supply will need to be found. I like the MSD Street Fire box and matching spark plug wires. I've used this system for many years with O problems. The most expensive part is the MSD box but it is still less expensive than most distrubiters on the market now. Any ignition controller will work with the Dura Spark magnetic pickup distrubiter.
I don't have anything against any other system as they all have their merits. I arrived at my system by trial and error and it works for me. I'ts not shiney, glamorus or trick it just plain works.
Mike Kincheloe
Mikes Old Trucks
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1962 UNI Short Box, Stock Y block, 4 speed Image
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cdherman
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by cdherman »

The Pertronix setup allows for the closest appearance to stock that you can get with electronic. Duraspark set ups in their various forms, either using the Duraspark dizzy and module, or the Dizzy with some other aftermarket module will get you a potentially "better" product. Maybe more reliable and maybe hotter. But a maybe on both accounts....

The Pertronix Ignitor II unit has protection against overheating, so the post about burning it up by leaving the switch on is not correct if you pay the extra money for the II

I like mine. 10 years out, only about 5000 miles though, but its done it job perfectly. I have the Ignitor II and the Flamethrower coil. The FT likes the gap set wide, so do gap your plugs.

My harmonic balancer had spun on the 65 -- I replaced with a 3 ring pully setup from a 70's 300 and had to re-establish TDC using a piston stop. From there, I played with the advance till I maxed my vacuum.

Of note, it is possible that *some* old 352s might have had a Loadomatic distributor. This dizzy has no centrifugal advance -- just vacuum, from a special "spark control valve" governed venturi in the carb. Quickest way make sure you have a more modern dizzy is to grab the rotor and twist. In one direction it should twist about 30 deg and then spring back when released. That's your centrifugal advance springs and the travel of the advance.

If you have a loadomatic, then all bets are off what your best solution is -- probably best to look at a Duraspark......
1965 F-100 240 Autolite 1101, Disk brake dual master upgraded, swapped over to C4 and powersteering. Bought by my Dad new in March 65'

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Limestone66
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Limestone66 »

But thats the problem you guys. I do have the old loadamatic dizzy and i had been looking at a dizzy upgrade. I'm running the Edelbrock 'Performer' 600cfm carb that offers no 'scv'. Seems like one of our members did this and posted it. Hell, i forget, anyways i had been scoping out the different types i could go to with much better results and ran across the 'Pertronix' 'Flame-Thrower dizzy with it's on module tucked up under the cap. It seemed pretty impressive to me and was priced a hundred bucks cheaper then going to a full MSD system or the 'Duraspark II equivalent and even the 'DUI'. Not talking about the points conversion 'Igniter' but the entire dizzy from 'Pertronixs'. I dont have a matched ignition to carb system that works good with these old motors like the 352 i have. I just had my heads completely rebuilt and though the ol girl runs pretty damn good, i know it could perform better by going to a complete electronics type dizzy without spending 500 bucks on one. I will if i hafta, but rather not if the 'Pertronics Flame-Thrower would be a good choice. Like i said, these dizzys are priced a hundred bucks cheaper and hopefully would still offer me a better ignition system. As always, i am 'humble with big ears.
...............Ron
Long live the 352

........Ron..........

1966 Ford F250 Custom Cab {Longbox}
1996 Toyota Camry {Wifes ride}
1940 Harley Davidson knucklehead {Retired in 2006, gave to one of my sons in 2010}
1975 Harley Davidson XLH {Groundpounder}
2005 Harley Davidson Deluxe {Nostalgia} Almost home 'girl'

In memory of Donald G. Roswell- My freind and 'brother'.
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Toyz
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Toyz »

As you stated, I don't see enough advantage to justify the cost and wiring revisions needed to convert to an external control.
The Pertronix is dependable, original-appearing and relatively inexpensive, and avoids that bulky "Chevy" HEI. . Another possible option would be a rebuilt non-Loadamatic distributor with points and condenser replaced by the Pertronix conversion. You can always throw the points/ condenser in the glovebox for backup in the rare chance of a failure. They will function with a somewhat potentially shorter life with the 12 volts.
Paul
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Toyz
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Toyz »

AAAAND,
For those of you who run the "coil in crap" HEI, and just feel the need for an external control box, here ya go!

Image

:twisted:
Paul
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Limestone66
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Limestone66 »

Paul? I even thought about just going to a Mallory dual point dizzy like the one i had in my 65 Fairlane way back yonder {70's}, but i really liked the 'Pertronix' dizzy better. Full 12 volts thru a preferred relay or just come off the switch. Everything is all there tucked up under the stock looking cap with only a single wire to hookup. 'Uncleskip' said he has ran this in his slick {Nadine}, dont know if he talkin about the 'Igniter' points conversion or the whole enchelada like the flame-thrower. I'm greedy, i want the whole thing.
Long live the 352

........Ron..........

1966 Ford F250 Custom Cab {Longbox}
1996 Toyota Camry {Wifes ride}
1940 Harley Davidson knucklehead {Retired in 2006, gave to one of my sons in 2010}
1975 Harley Davidson XLH {Groundpounder}
2005 Harley Davidson Deluxe {Nostalgia} Almost home 'girl'

In memory of Donald G. Roswell- My freind and 'brother'.
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charliemccraney
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by charliemccraney »

Simply going from the load-o-matic to a centrifugal distributor should make a huge difference.

I don't know about the complete Pertronix distributor, but the ignitors are simply points replacements. The ignitor II is not bullet proof. I fried mine after leaving the ignition on even though it is suppose to be protected. I would take a Pertronix if someone gave it to me but I do not plan to buy one again. I noticed no increase in power or economy. The module is more difficult to find at parts stores than points. Given the choice between the two, I choose points.

Regarding the concept of "just swap your points back if it fails," if you use one of the hotter flamethrower coils as well, it's going to get you about 20 miles before it destroys the points - it has to do with the low primary resistance. You may not even make it 20 miles with lower quality made in China points. So, not only do you have to carry spare points, you also need to carry a spare coil suitable for use with the points if you plan to venture any significant distance from home and don't trust your Pertronix.
Lawrenceville, Ga
1961 F100 Unibody
318 Y-block (292 +.070 bore, +.170 stroke), FMS T5-Z w/Mustang 10.5" diaphragm clutch.
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Toyz
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Toyz »

Charlie,
It must be a "generation gap" thing! I grew up in an era of "Accel" coils with lowered primary resistance used with conventional points. We hadn't heard of "made in China", and the point life was certainly affected by the higher primary output, but given a good ventilated point set and a quality condenser, it certainly exceeded any "just get it home" requirements. I believe the base 40,000 volt Flamethrower is suggested for use with point systems as well as with the Pertronix. I do not know the suggested voltage for use with points, but would not be a bit hesitant to re-install the points to limp my way home in the case of the rare failure.
IMO it beats running an external box with a distributor set up only for switching. Of course they never fail; I've spoke with several members with 6A failures at inopportune times such as delivering a sold vehicle. People state "well, NASCAR uses them, so they must work well! It's worth noting that "NASCAR" mechanics also use TWO of the boxes, set up for switching in case of failure! Not to mention that "N" suffix on the box, and the accompanying shock mountings, which makes the boxes just a little more expensive!
As to performance increases, you are correct, it would be extremely hard to quantify any gains on a vehicle in solid shape with a quality tune. It's my feeling that remains true for the majority of "aftermarket improvements". For my daily use, I certainly don't miss points nor carburetors, and it's not from lack of knowledge of such. By getting a 100,000 miles between "tune-ups" on my daily drivers; I "should" have that much more time to spend on my older toys.
I agree 100% that the new centrifugal/ vacuum distributor would represent a large improvement; for a slight bit more, you can utilize a dependable, fairly maintenance-free system which may well mask any problems inherent in Ron's particular setup.
Paul
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charliemccraney
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by charliemccraney »

I speak on the points along with the lower primary resistance coil from experience, immediately after frying my ignitor 2.
Pertronix offer several different primary resistance coils. Some play well with points and no resistor. Some do not. There could be a generation gap but today we aren't talking about 10, 20, or 30 or more years ago. We're talking about now where there is "made in China" and that is where my experience lies. Actually, now that I think about it, this learning experience may have taken place about 10 years ago. :D

The problem with the cheaper points is they are insulated with plastic bushings. The heat generated when the wrong coil is used melts those bushings which initially affects the dwell but eventually causes a short and/or no dwell and the ignition plain doesn't work. I'm betting that a large majority of people with Pertronix installed and a points "backup" have these cheap points. However, I'm also sure that many still use a stock coil with their Pertronix, which should get them home. It is the ones who are actually running a hotter coil who need to be aware.
A better set of points lasted a little longer. Let me clarify, I wasn't as savvy as I am now and "better" is whatever "premium" points the local parts store had. I don't remember the brand and they may not have been the absolute best available. A stock replacement 12v coil which I later measured at around 2.25 ohms of primary resistance, if memory serves, with no resistor helped the points to last a lot longer, thousands of miles, but the absolute fix was an appropriate coil (or to reinstall the resistor, I'm sure would have worked).

That's my experience and I'm sticking to it. I would suggest for anyone considering a conversion and a different coil to at least run the points you plan to keep as a backup with the new coil to see how they do before you have to rely on them. I did not have good luck with a flamethrower 2 coil , .6 ohms and points and there is no way I'd rely on the points alone as a backup with that coil unless I am not planning to leave an approximately 10 mile radius from my house, just to be safe and ensure that I will get home.
Last edited by charliemccraney on July 6, 2013, 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lawrenceville, Ga
1961 F100 Unibody
318 Y-block (292 +.070 bore, +.170 stroke), FMS T5-Z w/Mustang 10.5" diaphragm clutch.
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Toyz
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Toyz »

So,

The take from this is: Don't buy a Flamethrower II or III coil, just settle for 40,000 volts :P , get the less expensive Flamethrower I, and if you are really worried about compatability with points, get it with 3.0 ohm resistance!
Buy an inexpensive rebuilt distributor; it don't need "performance bearings" since the dwell is now handled by the Pertronix.
Just get one which can handle driving that high oil pressure!
Buy a QUALITY set of Points and condenser; if you are worried about a backup; hell you can even buy a points file if you really feel the need. Ah, but the bushings and rubbing block? Well, you are on your own, guess you might want to buy a quality screwdriver for use every twenty miles or so :roll: . Oh, and as mentioned, don't leave the ignition on when not utilizing it!
Same info as fifty years ago!
Paul
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Toyz
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Toyz »

Now, back to Ron's situation:
IMO, the Pertronix distributor will work well for you. It won't be able to utilize the points backup, so that is not a concern. This brings us to the main concern about any of these "plug and play", regardless of Pertronix, MSD, ProComp or whatever. IF it should fail, you probably won't be able to walk into your local auto parts and grab a replacement for your FE!
Not to worry, other than the MSD's; failure reports are somewhat rare. (MSD is probably the victim of a bunch of people who buy the brand but don't bother to research installation).
Main caveat is , as repeatedly stated; DON'T leave the ignition on to check turn signals, play the radio, operate the sunroof, etc. !
Coils will overheat, especially oil-filled canisters, damage to distributor switching components is often the result of the coil overheating as well as direct overheating of the circuitry.
Lots of us will use these electronic distributors without ever experiencing a concern; a better record than I've found with external boxes, whether MSD or Duraspark.
Paul
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Greg D
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Greg D »

Have had Pertronix - love it.
I have a Pro Comp Ford Style HEI for the 5.0 in the 64 - haven't installed it yet.
It's not the best dizzy I could get but should be quite sufficient for a my stock engine.
1964 F 100 - I am going to do "something" with it.......

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Limestone66
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Limestone66 »

That maybe the price i am willing to pay. When it fails, then yer down. There will be no going back to points as this setup would not even exist unless i just install the 'Igniter', and retain the old 'loadamatic', and i aint gonna do that. Charlie had stated this in another post whereas the points conversion would only 'mask' the integral 'LOM' design over points. I sincerilly believe this to be true and would work well with the right mated carb like the 'Autolites' that came with the 'Spark Control Valve' or {SCV}. Not so with ol 'Limestone'. I'm gonna spring for the 'Pertronix' 'Flame-Thrower' and just hope for the best, choosing the right coil to go along withit and see how it does. The price is good compared to the high dollar ones that go for just under 5 bills. Just lookin for a dependable setup that i can rely on and still get the necessary performance utilizing the current carb that i have, which for the most part does pretty good.
Long live the 352

........Ron..........

1966 Ford F250 Custom Cab {Longbox}
1996 Toyota Camry {Wifes ride}
1940 Harley Davidson knucklehead {Retired in 2006, gave to one of my sons in 2010}
1975 Harley Davidson XLH {Groundpounder}
2005 Harley Davidson Deluxe {Nostalgia} Almost home 'girl'

In memory of Donald G. Roswell- My freind and 'brother'.
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Toyz
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Toyz »

Ron, you can always purchase a spare module to alleviate any concern. The Hall effect sensor and the rest of the distributor is not apt to fail. I have left my Crane Hi-8 box in place and wired into the harness just in case my small diameter MSD "plug and play" should fail. I don't particularly want to be reaching under a hot supercharger to change modules.
As Greg mentioned, a ProComp bargain basement Chinese unit will do just fine as long as one is aware that the replacement electronics are readily and cheaply available at your local auto supply.
In the case of the Pertronix, I am not certain the Ignitor III components offer any real benefits over the Ignitor II, other than requiring a hotter coil. The billet "plug and play" offers all the benefits of an external box without the hassles and price.
Paul
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DV65CustomCab
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by DV65CustomCab »

Lots of high tech wizardry being discussed here.

My :2cents: ... Big Red came with a Pertronix already installed (the P.O. was fuel economy obsessed...can't imagine why he bought a Slick). It's been in the truck for at least 10 years. Never a hiccup. I've left the ignition 'on' occasionally to do diagnostics...never for long periods like 30 minutes, but longer than 60 seconds...no problems with the Pertronix coil. Certainly no less risky than driving a points equipped vehicle and having a condenser burn out. As points become the thing of antiquity getting quality ones is increasingly difficult. The Duraspark is a good setup but requires wiring additions and a big module mounted somewhere. To me you can't beat a Pertronix.
Stop The Longbed Hate! :)
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Now: '93 F150 Lightning
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Limestone66
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Re: Info on the 'Pertronics' ignition system.............

Post by Limestone66 »

Always glad to hear from ya DV65. Did Big Red come with the flame-thrower, the entire dizzy or just the points conversion which would be the 'Igniter' and 'Igniter II' respectively?

Yeah 'Paul', i should be able to get one of those little plug in modules from most any auto parts store in case the other one decides to 'crapout' on me. I beleive they go for around $50 bucks.
Long live the 352

........Ron..........

1966 Ford F250 Custom Cab {Longbox}
1996 Toyota Camry {Wifes ride}
1940 Harley Davidson knucklehead {Retired in 2006, gave to one of my sons in 2010}
1975 Harley Davidson XLH {Groundpounder}
2005 Harley Davidson Deluxe {Nostalgia} Almost home 'girl'

In memory of Donald G. Roswell- My freind and 'brother'.
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