Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

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bmcgc
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by bmcgc »

My in town driving is traffic light to traffic light 1-2-3-2-1, all the time. Im wearing out my left leg. My right arm is 2x bigger than my left arm. Not really, but you get the idea.
Over the hill and picking up speed!

1966 F100 (Mine)
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Toyz
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by Toyz »

Um, where to start?
For the benefit of others who might not yet have given up on this thread, here's the problems as I see them:
'73 rear with 2.75's: 4'' wider overall, as you know. Modifications required to fit as an assembly; as Charlie stated, this will put the 7.5" "Bronco" wheels (actual offset is 3.75") um, kinda close to the fender lip; 275 mm. of tire casing width just makes it even tighter.
Use just the '73 third member?, um, likely to be a 31 spline; if by a stroke of luck it is a 28 spline, odds are still good the axles will not interchange. Go with 28 spline side gears, um, probably not a real good idea on a 40 year old assembly.
Ok, now we are at the ratio selection. In one post you state your usage, in the next, you appear to be complaining about the constant shifting. You threw out some rpm figures which I have not bothered to check for accuracy. The immediate thought is, if 45 mph is 1400 rpm, then 30 is, um, probably second gear! Sounds like more shifting and less economy to me! Highway use, maybe, (just maybe), a slight improvement IF you manage to stay in the torque curve, and your carburetion and spark advance happen to both like that particular rpm. To paraphrase your words, there is a reason Ford DID NOT generally put 2.75's in slicks!
Let me see, what might I have missed?
Oh, yeah, I might add I seem to remember you being adamantly opposed to the very idea of a T-5 in a slick! My opinion remains that the T-5, or any other overdrive, is a much more efficient and palatable solution to your expressed usage. You might not decrease the total amount of shifting, but I would just about bet ANY overdrive setup would offer a much superior driving experience, as well as improved economy, over your plan.
Hell, let's add in our other disagreement; A one-wire, ancient-technology high output alternator is not likely to be real beneficial at 1400 rpm.
BTW, none of my statements here are based on supposition, other than the tall ratio, and the remote possibility of a 28 spline carrier which might interchange. They ARE based on my personal experiences, right down to the later rear end and Bronco wheels and tires! My usage and reasons for driving my slicks certainly differ from yours, and the bottom line is, it's YOUR truck. When you have it completed YOUR way, come back then, and tell everyone how well you like it. We may all learn from your experience.
Paul
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bmcgc
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by bmcgc »

Do you drink every evening?

You advised me to do "some research".

Well I did and your posts suggests that my numbers and calculations are invalid.

Your just one of those guys who think you are the Holy Grail of all things and you hate it when someone disagrees with you.

If you don't like my posts then feel free to ignore me.

BTW, how many T-5s did Ford install in F series trucks?

None you say.

I wonder why?
Over the hill and picking up speed!

1966 F100 (Mine)
1965 Mustang (Hers)
1965 Mustang (Hers)
2012 Dodge Caliber (Hers-under protest)
1998 1100 Aero (Hers)
2001 1100 Aero (Mine)

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Ask Elvis WTH he has been
Spend the summer as Meatloafs Roadie
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Toyz
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by Toyz »

bmcgc wrote:Do you drink every evening?

You advised me to do "some research".

Well I did and your posts suggests that my numbers and calculations are invalid.

Your just one of those guys who think you are the Holy Grail of all things and you hate it when someone disagrees with you.

If you don't like my posts then feel free to ignore me.

BTW, how many T-5s did Ford install in F series trucks?

None you say.

I wonder why?


You asked, I answered, take your own advice! I DO ignore any posts started by you! Maybe spend a little more time backing up your statements; preferably with experience; rather than resorting to character assassination.
Proof reading might be worthwhile, too! I backed my opinions with verifiable fact; I seem to have missed any verification on your part. So, who does that make the "can't stand it when someone disagrees with you" party?
As I stated, put some FACTS out there, for the benefit of anyone who might consider such modifications. I'm not the only one who has questioned the wisdom of your proposed "changes"!
Apologies to the OP, administrators, and others offended by this OT b.s.! This site exists quite well without the drama; everyone's opinion adds value!
Paul
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66camperspecial
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by 66camperspecial »

The 78 I bought back in 85 had 2.75 gears and the 77 I sold 3 years ago had them too,yesterday at the junkyard while looking for a 65 to 72 rear end they told me that had a 9 inch they had taken out so I looked an it was a 2.75 but was much wider so I guessed it was a 73 to 79 and could not use. That yard has a bunch of 65 short beds that used to be state trucks that I will most likely grab one from as soon as I find out what the ratios are.
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totten
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by totten »

Sounds right to me. I run 3.00 gear and run 2200 rpm at 57. Tony
1966 f-100 ranger,red and white,240,cruiseomatic,3.00 gear,a/c.
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by 66camperspecial »

I just remembered I do have a pig with 2.75 gears I took out of a 78 I parted and will try it first and then go to a 3.00 gear,over the winter I am going to reupholster my 90 XLT seat and see how it does before I do any suspension changes. I will keep it as a 3/4 ton if I can find a o/d trans cheap but I doubt that happens so I will get a 9 inch over the winter.
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Toyz
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by Toyz »

Tony,
I'm probably just re-iterating things you already know.
A 3.00 works decent with a Cruiseomatic. That's the combination which is often found in the later model trucks. There is a hell of a difference between running 1100 rpm in top gear with an automatic, and doing the same with a manual transmission. At 30 mph, the automatic setup is happy, the manual, not so much! If you don't mind shifting the manual, yeah, it works, especially with a 3.00. If you are complaining about "1-2-3-2-1" with the current ratio; and advocating 2.75's,, that's a different matter.
My point on "research" is to make certain you know what you are doing. You can gear a washing machine motor to drive a slick; most of us would not be happy with the results.
If someone wants a 2.75, more power to them. Let them make the necessary mods to do that if they want to experiment.
The truck 2.75 is, in most cases, NOT going to be a "drop-in" for the reasons I stated. They were not offered in the slicks, even with automatics, so Ford probably DID know what they were doing.. If someone wants to experiment, then a 28 spline passenger car 9" is the easy solution, albeit hard to find.
Modifying the later model housings is also quite doable; it does have some downsides related to tire (and chains, if ever used) clearances when going with oversize tires.
So far, I have seen no one other than myself, post that they have swapped to 2.75 gears in their manual transmission slick, so I guess it may be hard to obtain a real world opinion of the results.
Again, this has little to do with the original post; I have no idea what transmission he is running. He has stated he had 2.75's in a later truck, if it were a manual, especially a 4 speed, and he was happy with it, then it might be an acceptable solution for his usage. With a 460 for motivation in his current truck, low end acceleration is not a problem regardless of gear set.
Paul
The Ford Orphanage
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66camperspecial
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by 66camperspecial »

Right now my truck has a C-6 behind the 460 which will most likely stay since I doubt I will ever find a NV4500 cheap,since the ride is a little rough and there is no cheap way to get a overdrive trans behind a 460 changing to a 1/2 ton with 9 inch to get more highway friendly gears will be the most economical way to get it to where I can afford to drive it long distances since I have the front suspension in stock and only have to come up with the 9 inch. Right now its getting 13 with the 3.54 gears and mostly on two lane roads at 60 mph so with some 3.00s and some tuning I hope I can get it to around 16 to 18 and travel 70 on the highways without going to a smaller motor,when I do it its going to get some leaves out of the rear springs with teflon and 1/2 ton front springs so it wont beat me to death.
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Toyz
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by Toyz »

An E4OD is fairly reasonable pricewise but would require a controller.
From your description, I would think the 3.00's would be an efficient setup with the abundant torque of most 460's. That assembly should also be fairly easy to find with the correct housing for the slicks. I have no clue as to fuel economy but would expect some improvement.
If you are getting 13, you probably already have the straight-up cam timing as opposed to the "smog" retarded sprocket. There is a little to be gained by optimizing cam timing for your particular usage; but might require some " trial and error" adjustments.
Paul
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Indy63
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by Indy63 »

You're talking about putting a lot of money and effort into getting maybe another mpg or two at most out of a 460. It will never repeatedly average high teens, especially in our trucks. A higher (lower numerically) gear will just make it work harder lugging around town and counteract what little gain you'd see on the highway. If you have a stock/ mild engine with a straight up timing set, your best chance of improving mileage would be to optimize timing (possibly recurve the distributor) and run a 600 cfm vacuum secondary carb that is actually tuned on your engine via a wide band O2 sensor and air/fuel gauge. I strongly recommend optimizing what you have before swapping gears or the whole rear end.

For the ride, if you're going to stick with twin I beams, softer coils can help but are not necessarily the answer. You will need to order decent shocks (not the generic ones stocked at the auto parts store) and pull a few leafs out of the back. Also, make sure your bump stops are pliable and in good shape.
bmcgc
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by bmcgc »

Well Paul you are the only one bringing drama to this site. Your attempts to discredit me only make you look like an ass. Im not doing that to you, you are doing that to yourself.

I suggest the possibility of a DOA alternator. You attack my suggestion. You are wrong, it happens.

I suggest a 1 wire alternator as a possible modification. You attack my suggestion. Wrong again, thousands have done it, most of the major parts suppliers sell them. Instead of stating why you don't care for a 1 wire you choose to attack me because I like them.

I suggest 2.75 gears as a possible solution. You attack my suggestion, Once again your foot is in your mouth. Go to the FTE forums, lots of guys are running them and are happy with them, sure some don't like them, but as with everything there are two sides to the coin.

Heres another suggestion: If you just want to bring drama go somewhere else. This site for the most part has a bunch of guys who get along well and share a love of trucks. There are plenty of other sites where you can be insulating and make an ass of yourself. GO THERE AND LEAVE ME ALONE. I don't know what you are trying to win, but you will not win butting heads with me. Im a nice guy, Im easy to get along with. One of the reasons I have been successful in life is because I surround myself with other successful people and I stay away from people like you.
Over the hill and picking up speed!

1966 F100 (Mine)
1965 Mustang (Hers)
1965 Mustang (Hers)
2012 Dodge Caliber (Hers-under protest)
1998 1100 Aero (Hers)
2001 1100 Aero (Mine)

Wish List:

Win Indy 500
Ask Elvis WTH he has been
Spend the summer as Meatloafs Roadie
Be a member of the "Five Timers" club
bmcgc
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by bmcgc »

BTW: I post on about a dozen different forums about F100s, Mustangs, Hondas, Harleys, boating, and woodworking.

Only one guy on one forum trys to give me a bunch of crap.

Guess who that is Paul?
Over the hill and picking up speed!

1966 F100 (Mine)
1965 Mustang (Hers)
1965 Mustang (Hers)
2012 Dodge Caliber (Hers-under protest)
1998 1100 Aero (Hers)
2001 1100 Aero (Mine)

Wish List:

Win Indy 500
Ask Elvis WTH he has been
Spend the summer as Meatloafs Roadie
Be a member of the "Five Timers" club
66camperspecial
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by 66camperspecial »

I dont think taller gears is going to make the 460 work too hard,I had a 78 f150 that had a 351-M/C-6 and 2.75 gears and it got about 18 on the highway and could pull a full sized car behind it and could not feel it so I think the 460 would tow good with that gear. The 351-M did have a rv grind cam and dual exhaust but the 460 seems to have way more torque then that 351 had,my 460 runs too good and probably has straight up timing as it would run circles around the stock 460 I had in a beater 77 F150. 99 percent of the time I will be running empty and if my 78 with that M motor and 2.75 gears could pull a full size car with ease my 66 with the 460 and 3,00 gears should do the same and better,like I said before I would keep it as a 3/4 ton if I could put a overdrive in it reasonable but I dont think that will happen. The 66 needs tires and I have the 1/2 front suspension in a parts truck behind the garaged along with a set of rims and I can get a 9 inch for around a hundred dollars so I wont be spending alot of money to gain some mileage and using 1/2 front springs and removing leaves and installing teflon between the leaves should help out on the ride,if I can get the 66 to get around 16 on the highway I think I will will be good enough.
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Toyz
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by Toyz »

As stated, I don't think you will have a problem when using the COM. The taller ratios were found behind the automatics for a reason, and I totally agree with Indy63 when 2.75's with a 352 and manual 3 speed is the topic. As stated, I've done it (unknowingly) with a four speed and it still sucked, IMO.
Indy is correct on the taller gears dragging the engine and thus, economy, down, but the 460 is a torque monster.
There should be some of the oem-width housing 3.00's around without resorting to trying expensive modifications to utilize 2.75's. The 3.00's were found on the auto trans-equipped slicks. It is the tallest ratio listed for any of the slicks. The C-6 has some good ratios, and will be quite happy letting the torque converter do it's job' although you might want to add a trans temp gauge.
I also agree 100% with utilizing known quality shocks. I like the IAS's myself, but am not even certain if they are available for your application. The Cargo Coils are available, and relatively cheap. When charged with improving the ride of a large fleet of slicks, I utilized the Moogs and Gabriel "Adjustable E's". I do not think the Adjustable E's are available, since they pre-dated wide-spread usage of gas-dampened shocks.
The lighter springs combined with lower load-rated tires will certainly help the ride, and the later seat is a definite improvement. MY one-ton would be unbearable with the oem seat, even though the steering wheel is a rather tight fit with the later seat!
Please keep us posted on your findings.
Paul
The Ford Orphanage
Life's too short for boring vehicles!
My quest to develop a universal solvent is held up by the lack of a storage container.
Paul
66camperspecial
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by 66camperspecial »

I will look into some better shocks,it has the discount part store shocks on it now and where does one purchase better shocks.
RicoHotdog
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by RicoHotdog »

Newb here. I am considering doing the same thing with my '66 Mercury M-250. I've had it for years and don't want to part with it, but it's slow to start with, and then I went ahead an put lower profile tires on to get a look... I really like the truck but would like to put different wheels on it, and it'd be nice if it wasn't the slowest moving thing on the freeway. I'm following this thread with interest...
lucky23
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by lucky23 »

Newb here. I am considering doing the same thing with my '66 Mercury M-250. I've had it for years and don't want to part with it, but it's slow to start with, and then I went ahead an put lower profile tires on to get a look... I really like the truck but would like to put different wheels on it, and it'd be nice if it wasn't the slowest moving thing on the freeway. I'm following this thread with interest...

As a newbie 250 owner researching a lot of the same issues, I've come to one conclusion: it's a 250. It will never be a 70+ Freeway cruiser with modern cushy suspension without a LOT of work, and then it's not really an old 250 anymore, right? I'm going to put 3.54s in mine and be done with it. I bought this truck because I love OLD trucks, warts and all. There's a character to these old girls that I personally think gets erased when people modify them too much. It would seem to me that selling your 250 and buying a f100 might be a LOT easier and less expensive. Now, this is only my humble opinion and I'm not putting anyone down for what they choose to do to their own truck :lol:
1966 F250/352/cruiseomatic tranny/Dana 60 4.10
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by 66camperspecial »

Had a 9 inch out of the truck lined up but got sold out from under me so it looks like i will have to take one out at a local junkyard,there is only one complete rear end and its in a truck that the bed is loaded with old house windows and doors.
66camperspecial
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Re: Thinking about converting my 66 to a 1/2 ton

Post by 66camperspecial »

I just got finished installing the front suspension from a 76 F150 along with the front sway bar from a 76 F250 I picked up a few years ago,I turned it around in the garage and is now going to get the 69 9 inch installed along with the rear sway bar from the 76 250 that donated the front sway bar. I now need to come up with a complete set of wheels and will look in a couple junklyards saturday.
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