Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

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ICEMAN6166
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by ICEMAN6166 »

personally i would fix your dist.or replace with the same.

might consider the pertronix but i would still keep points in the glovebox.

your truck,your choice.
as for me i stick with the simple factory parts.
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by bobenhotep »

I used a duraspark single advance distributor hooked to a GM 4 pin HEI module. I originally did it because I had several of the HEI modules in my electrofunk box. I scrapped an old computer and put the HEI module on the CPU heatsink, hooked it to a MSD blaster coil and was cooking with fatback. I have the diagrams to hook it up and can tell you just about anything you would like to know about it.

Dan
For every person with a spark of genius, there are a hundred with ignition trouble

My '63 short wrongbed

"The Iron Rhino"
300 I6, 3 spd manual, DS II/ HEI ignition.

Stuff I added to Hints and tricks

-300-6 choke tube repair
-duraspark II/ HEI
-Horn ring contact tube repair
-turn signal indicator fix




Mikhail Kalashnikov and Nikola Tesla are the guys i think of when i build things.

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unibody madness
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by unibody madness »

Dan,
does your hei set up also work with the 223 i6,or 292 yblock?
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Toyz
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by Toyz »

Gotta go with Ice on this one! I'd definitely go with Pertronics, particularly Pertronics II which seems a little more robust. Unplug the resistor wire, run a new wire from that connector to the coil, and you're in business! that is, after you spray down the centrifugal advance and wiggle it as you stated until free.
Definitely keep a set of points and condenser just in case; they will work fine with the 12 volt supply, or just hook the ink resistor wire back up if ever needed.
Dan's system is simple and straight - forward; you just need an electronic distributor for it . With the Pertronix, you won't need to change or pull your distributor, and unlike points, a little wear won't affect performance. :2cents:
Paul
Last edited by Toyz on June 9, 2014, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Oregoon
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by Oregoon »

I replaced a stock spark-cntrol distributor and Autolite 1100 with a Dan's Duraspark II and Carter YF recipie, and it's like night and day how much better the truck ran.

Simple, easy to get parts for and very effective.
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by bruceandersson »

I went with the duraspark out of a later model 300 with the std ford module. Simple to install, no problems or issues.
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by tomrooster »

might just need a couple drops of oil to free up your distributor's centrifugal weights. Tom
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Toyz
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by Toyz »

The Pertronix II meets your wants and Has fairly wide coverage on the big sixes. I suspect the reason for needing the number is due to the Loadamatic. I will get you a part number this evening. The oil pump shaft should have been retained by a keeper. If you are going to change them out, pull yours first to see if the shaft remains in the pump. If it does, then remove the shaft from the replacement. If it comes out with the distributor, then having it in the replacement will ease the re- installation. Just be sure it all seats securely without binding.
Personally, I would try freeing the advance weights and put the Pertronix in the installed distributor. That way the installation is nearly as simple as a point/ condenser change, especially since you need not be concerned about setting dwell.
Paul
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by Toyz »

Doc, the Pertronix I p/n 1261 fits your application. It is fairly universal to the Ford straight sixes, as are points and condenser. I think you will see a noticeable improvement, especially if your distributor is worn, as most are.
Paul
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by unibody madness »

Doc,
I have the 1261 in my 223, as the 1266 did not fit correctly. I did not go with a hotter coil I did buy a new one, I also increased my plug gap.
If you pm me your address I can try to email the trouble shooting pdf I got from petronix that should help with the install, and answer any questions.
BTW I have the pertronix in both 223 and 292 yblock trucks and highly recomend them.
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viewtopic.php?f=32&t=18944

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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by bobenhotep »

Back when I had a 223 in my truck I had a pertronix that I used to fire a MSD box. That might be of use to you.

The 300 distributor will fit in a 223 if you use the distributor gear off of a 64 model. You will also have to change over to a 64 oil pump. I have no idea about a y block.

If you use a high powered coil with the pertronix, be sure to keep the original in your breakdown box to use with the points if the pertronix fails, or be sure that the coil will work with points.

I was always weary of the HEI style distributors because the module is inside the distributor where it is subjected to a lot of heat. You also cannot replace the pick up module without taking the distributor out and taking it all the way apart. The HEI 4 pin module works well if you mount it externally because it will almost never get hot. It also uses 12 volts, and adjusts dwell automatically. If you want high powered aftermarket there are a ton to choose from. The bad part is that you end up with some redneck mad scientist looking crap under your hood.

I think any way you go will work well.

Dan
For every person with a spark of genius, there are a hundred with ignition trouble

My '63 short wrongbed

"The Iron Rhino"
300 I6, 3 spd manual, DS II/ HEI ignition.

Stuff I added to Hints and tricks

-300-6 choke tube repair
-duraspark II/ HEI
-Horn ring contact tube repair
-turn signal indicator fix




Mikhail Kalashnikov and Nikola Tesla are the guys i think of when i build things.

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unibody madness
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by unibody madness »

Dan,
I find it interesting that you had a pertronix hooked up to an msd. I have been told they won't work together. If you have a schematic that shows how to hook them up could you pm it to me. I have a msd that came with my 292 just sitting in a box because I went with the pertronix.
john
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by bobenhotep »

The box I used was a MSD-5. I looked online and found a few diagrams, I forgot how I did it.

This is for the 6 al box. I remember hooking the black wire to the wire the points hooked to, so this makes sense.

http://www.vintageperformance.com/retrorockets/ignitor_msd.htm

Dan
For every person with a spark of genius, there are a hundred with ignition trouble

My '63 short wrongbed

"The Iron Rhino"
300 I6, 3 spd manual, DS II/ HEI ignition.

Stuff I added to Hints and tricks

-300-6 choke tube repair
-duraspark II/ HEI
-Horn ring contact tube repair
-turn signal indicator fix




Mikhail Kalashnikov and Nikola Tesla are the guys i think of when i build things.

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Toyz
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by Toyz »

Sorry for the delay, Doc; it wasn't so much a matter of remembering the p/n as it was remembering to check the applications and get back to you. I thought it fit most of the sixties Ford sixes, but had to verify that. I used MSD Blaster epoxy coils since I have went back to oil filled coils on my performance applications.
Again, I will have to check on the voltage range for the Pertronix I. I buy my items thru a local speed shop when possible, and I do know the last one I ordered, she went ahead and got me the more expensive Pertronix II based on a couple of reports of shorter life of the Pertronix I. The II does require full battery voltage.
As far as bang for the buck, yes, I do widen the plug gap, something I normally experiment with regardless of system. I don't track economy but agree with your thoughts along that line. Performance and economy are far from mutually exclusive, other than internal engine changes, making stuff run "right" helps both IMO!
Actually, I have never seen any verifiable performance improvement using an MSD box on a well-tuned system utilizing either DuraSpark, Pertronix, or HEI.
I agree with Dan; I don't care for my module and coil to be "penned up" in the distributor, nor do I like the wiring necessary to run the Duraspark. When utilizing the early TFI, I isolate the TFI module from the distributor in the manner Dan, me, and others do with the GM module. I in fact use a modified TFI distributor with MSD box to fire my custom system on my 28 lb. boosted Mustang.
The MSD's multi spark at low rpm may have some benefit to you; if you wish to try, I'll send you an MSD 6A to experiment with. It would be interesting to see it any fuel economy resulted.
Didn't mean to make this such a long post; now I'll check on the Pertronix voltage suggestions and get back to you; SOON!
Paul
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by Toyz »

Looks as if the Pertronix I will work with your original resistance wire. Pertronix's site has quite a bit of info on determining total resistance and the requirements. I don't know thatr the Pertronix II would offer any additional value for your usage. Most of the "improvements" on the II seem to be directed toward higher rpm performance and the use of a low resistance coil!

Paul
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by bobenhotep »

I had a pertronix I, because I just used it basically as a trigger for the MSD. The "I" module is basically electronic points, whereas the "II" is an actual full power electronic ignition. I have heard of a "III" which is like a mini MSD box, but never heard of anyone using one.

Dan
For every person with a spark of genius, there are a hundred with ignition trouble

My '63 short wrongbed

"The Iron Rhino"
300 I6, 3 spd manual, DS II/ HEI ignition.

Stuff I added to Hints and tricks

-300-6 choke tube repair
-duraspark II/ HEI
-Horn ring contact tube repair
-turn signal indicator fix




Mikhail Kalashnikov and Nikola Tesla are the guys i think of when i build things.

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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by Toyz »

I am not sure I would consider the Pertronix II a " full electronic ignition, since spark advance/retard is still handled via mechanical/ vacuum. It does contain some circuitry to ensure spark timing accuracy. Most of the other advantages have to do with the additional voltage, IMO. People who have used the Pertronix III seem to like them. I personally prefer the Crane multi-spark external box.
Paul
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by Toyz »

I suspect you don't spend a lot of time idling, so, although every bit helps, I am not certain you will see an appreciable difference based on leaning out the idle circuit. Consistent spark WILL affect performance and thus economy; this is the forte of electronic control. Within reason, the Pertronix doesn't vary dwell and cylinder to cylinder timing even with appreciable distributor wear. If you've been around the old distributor machines and scopes, you have probably seen this variation even in good point type distributors.
Playing with advance mechanisms also can yield good results, you amy to free yours up and ascertain full advance before making any other mods. Beyond that, without a distributor machine, it's probably trial and error, and,also, fuel quality dependent.
The Pertronix II MAY provide some economy benefits; the extra cost is around $20.00, I believe.
I ran into what appears to be a "deal" on a new Pertronix III. That coupled with the choice between a MSD distributor without vacuum advance, and an HEI; to which I have objections even beyond esthetics; means I will be converting an old point type distributor to PIII. We'll see how THAT works!
:2cents:
Paul
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by Toyz »

Assuming your spare is not a Loaf-a-matic, the centrifugal advance assembly is below the breaker plate. It takes a little doing to dis-assemble and re-assemble, but you may be able to access the weights and the slotted plate which they control without total dis-assembly, at least enough to free them up.
Paul
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Re: Time for a Distributor Upgrade ???

Post by bobenhotep »

I think it is a load o matic. If you have an autolite 1100 and it has a thing on the outside that looks like a holley power valve, it is a load o matic.

Dan
For every person with a spark of genius, there are a hundred with ignition trouble

My '63 short wrongbed

"The Iron Rhino"
300 I6, 3 spd manual, DS II/ HEI ignition.

Stuff I added to Hints and tricks

-300-6 choke tube repair
-duraspark II/ HEI
-Horn ring contact tube repair
-turn signal indicator fix




Mikhail Kalashnikov and Nikola Tesla are the guys i think of when i build things.

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