A little disapointed after the alignment

[66camperspecial]

I took my 66 to a local spring shop to get the front end aligned after the 1/2 conversion,told them what I had done and asked for a price so I made a appointment and had it aligned. When I went to pick it up I was told we could only set the toe in and could not do anything with the camber and was a little bummed,the price was higher then I had ever paid for a alignment on a normal IFS vehicle and thinking they were also going to bend the axles to fix the camber due to my cutting the springs which they were told about at the initial conversation. I am more mad at myself for not asking if they could fix the camber and figured since they made springs they were able to handle it but was told they have not done it for over 10 years,any tire shop would have set the toe in for way less then what I had paid and there was one closer to work then this shop so I will be looking for another shop to do it again. It does go down the road straight now but not happy with myself right now for wasting money and only getting half a alignment.

[yellodog]

most shops wouldn't have the faintest idea how to bend those i beams, you're probably lucky they didn't try. i did bunches of them back in the day, but the dealer i worked at got a new alignment rack about '85, and after that it was just a toe & go. did they give you a printout of the alignment specs? if you think it may still need adjustment, you might try a place that does heavy truck alignments, they may be able to bend the i beams if nessessary.

[Toyz]

Not to add a sour note, but IMO, you didn't get even "half a alignment" since the toe setting will more than likely require adjustment after the camber is corrected. Really irritates when shops do things like that. Had the same problem with a last minute need for an alignment at a local NTB. I asked specifically if they could do the alignment on a four by four. They assured me they could, then called to say it would require a "camber kit", without bothering to notice that a camber adjusting kit had already been installed.
There should be a local "old school" shop which still has the equipment and know-how to do this correctly.
Paul

[66camperspecial]

The shop I took it to has been around for at least 70 years and even though these trucks are not as common now one would think they still could do the job or told me right from the start,if they can make springs they should be able to bend the axles.

[ezernut9mm]

most big truck shops still do this as they deal with i beam alignments all the time. however, they usually do charge more. btw, fords seem to like just a bit of negative camber.

[66camperspecial]

Unfortunately there is no big truck shops in walking distance from where I work.

[yellodog]

The shop I took it to has been around for at least 70 years and even though these trucks are not as common now one would think they still could do the job or told me right from the start,if they can make springs they should be able to bend the axles.

well they haven't been made in 30 years, so finding someone with the expertise might be a challange, even if they have the equiptment. when i worked at a ford dealer, we had old boys come in & talk about their flatheads, model t's & a's, and other stuff that was common decades ago, but i knew nothing about that stuff, although we still had some equiptment & tools for those old cars. as i said, we replaced our alignment rack about '85 and the new one didn't have the provisions to bend the axels, so we just quit doing it.

that all being said, it's really not that hard to do. if you find someone that can do it, make sure they bend them cold, not heat them up. iv'e seen it done both ways, but ford told us to never do it using heat.

[66camperspecial]

75 dollars just to set the toe in is way too high,was told the axles could be bent off the truck but no way I am going to take it apart again so I am going to look for another place to get my alignments done.

[Toyz]

That is pretty excessive, especially since you requested an algnment. Once you find a shop to do it, it is probably worth discussing the expectations in advance. A quality shop will usually align to a tighter tolerance than the wide range stated in Ford's specifications. They should inquire as to normal loading and align accordingly, IMO.
Paul

[deadheadno1]

I have been dealing with I-beams all my life and would really like to know how in the h*ll you set the camber by bending them while they are off the truck?????

[Toyz]

That goes back to the wide lattitude on the specs. Not something i would want to try, but, measure, mount in fixture, bend to correct degree of angularity! Reinstall, check! Potential problems are multiple, especially caster change from incorrect bending.
I agree, if someone suggested off-truck correction, I would leave rapidly.
I suspect Sid could accomplish that quite well if he chose to, but why?
Paul

[66camperspecial]

It looks like I will have to look out of town for a shop that will align it correctly so over the winter I am going to install new king pins so when I do find someone who can align it I will not hear you need king pins,I talked to another shop today and they wanted a little more for just a toe in alignment so it might take me a little time to find a shop that can handle the job. Maybe its time to put a mid 70 Torino or LTD front clip on it since I could get it aligned any where around town,even dropping it on a 87 to 96 F150 chassis might be better too.

[yellodog]

I have been dealing with I-beams all my life and would really like to know how in the h*ll you set the camber by bending them while they are off the truck?????

i was wondering that myself. givin enough times in & out, you might eventually walk them into spec, but why would anyone even attempt it?

[Toyz]

It is not a big deal to do once you know the amount of correction required. Only reason I can think of; is if one had access to a caster/ camber gauge; or had a trustworthy source check alignment. If the bushings were being replaced, one had a shop press; but no setup to bend in place, it could be accomplished with enough accuracy to fall into the specs. Still would usually require a re-check of at least the toe setting; also something easily done in the home shop.
Paul

[BarnieTrk]

It looks like I will have to look out of town for a shop that will align it correctly so over the winter I am going to install new king pins so when I do find someone who can align it I will not hear you need king pins,I talked to another shop today and they wanted a little more for just a toe in alignment so it might take me a little time to find a shop that can handle the job.

I'd suggest you also take a look at the inner pivot bushings (located at the other end from the king pin end of the axle).
After all these years, they may also need replacing. Yeah, kinda a PIA to do, but still do-able in the backyard.

BarnieTrk

[64 f100]

I've refrained from saying anything about this post, but I can not stand it any longer. I do my own toe in adjustment a nd have considerable success at it using two pieces of tubing one inside the other. However, they charged you for a complete alignment and took the job on knowing they could not do the job. This is fraudulent. I would have raised holy hell over what you were charged for setting tow in. If they could not do the job, they should never have taken it in. However, you should have asked a few questions about I-beam alignments on this site before picking that shop. This comes from expecting that these people know what their doing, and in this case, they did. Screwing you! AS to bending the axles this a tricky proposition but can be done, but not for the faint of hearted. Involves heavy duty hydraulic jack and a piece of railroad iron and a lot of careful planning ad then it's trial and error. I truly don't suggest you try it, unless you are an experience mechanic. To many slight variables that can go wrong.

Rich

[Toyz]

I agree with Rich's statements, especially the fraudulent part. However, the bending does not have to be a tricky proposition. Even without camber/ caster plates to ease the process, it can be easily accomplished with a protractor or magnetic caster/ camber gauge, and preferably, some way to get under the vehicle in it's normal wheels-loaded position. If pulling while driving is not a problem, in the same manner Rich uses for toe-in, a metal tube just long enough to touch the rims in a vertical position while missing the hub allows one to use a protractor to determine current camber, and monitor correction. Bending is easily done with the mentioned I-beam and some sort of clamping devices. Since in most cases , one is trying to correct negative camber, large enough C-clamps to allow the beam to set in them and allow for a hydraulic jack or Porta-power will suffice. Not rocket science, as Ezer said our trucks like just a bit of negative camber, and tire wear will not be excessive in the range of 1/2 degree negative. As long as the support beam is allowed to "hang" in a vertical position, and the jack is centered on the beam, no appreciable caster change should occur. This is where having the truck at normal position becomes important.
Sounds complicated, but I have seen people obtain good results with very crude equipment and using a smart phone to determine the wheel angularity!
Paul

[yellodog]

from someone who's done hundreds of full tib alignments, not just toe-n-go, your assessment of how easy it is, is mistaken.

[66camperspecial]

I should have asked more questions but one would think after I told them what I had done before I dropped it off they would have told me they could only do the toe in,I asked another shop if they could do a complete alignment on a early twin I beam and they said only the toe in for 85 dollars. I came close to saying this is why I would never buy tires or any other service from you but kept quiet since we deal with them at where I work.

[Toyz]

from someone who's done hundreds of full tib alignments, not just toe-n-go, your assessment of how easy it is, is mistaken.

Even though I was first certified in front end by NIASE in 1975, prior to my General certification, I can't say I've done hundreds of the twin beam corrections; they are pretty robust. Maybe I over-estimated general skill levels, but I doubt it!.
I maintained a large amount of twin beam applications for a major utility with a known propensity for "driving 'em wherever they needed to get". "Full alignments"? Not many required correction once the condition of all associated parts was verified. Coupled with my upgrading many to Cargo Coils and Adjustable "E" shocks; there was, however, enough sheer volume to justify my investment in a dedicated correction kit for the Twin Beams.
I can not imagine anyone having a problem setting up the correction fixture and monitoring the correction. The only potential part of the procedure which might take a little experience is knowing exactly how much to "over-bend" to attain the desired results. I have watched others perform equally well with a simple magnetic caster/camber gauge and a set of caster plates.
Easy is a relative thing; some find procedures for some things extremely difficult while others breeze through them.
My statement remains that someone with a knowledge of alignment should have little problem with a twin beam correction.
Paul