MIG Welders: Flux vs. Gas

[LM14]

Buy the gas bottle and get set up for gas. The flux core works OK outside in the wind but for indoor work it will be messier and leave worse looking welds. No way you can make a good weld with a flux without a lot of grinding and cleanup.

The flux wire welds will look similar to old stick welding but have a yellowish powder coating on the finished weld. That is the flux that protected the hot molten metal as it cooled to keep it from collecting contaminants. Leaves a weld that is lumpier and needs cleaned up. I ran 1 roll thru my welder when I first got it while waiting for my tank and regulator. Never again.

Any wire feed welder will run flux core as far as I know. My 125SP Lincoln runs both. You can't run gas in a flux core welder but you can run flux core in a gas welder if I remember correctly, the experts will correct me if that is wrong. Has to do with the gun liner. I don't own a roll of flux wire, hate working with it. I do keep .025 and .030 wire for my welder. I switch to the smaller wire for sheetmetal work. Flux core burns hotter and is not nearly as nice for sheetmetal work. As far as I'm concerned, the only plus for flux core is you can wire weld while out in the wind. It usually costs more, too.

Probably one of the best deals out there right now are either the Hobart Handler 140 or the Eastwood 110/220 welder. I'm trying to convince myself I need the Eastwood unit since my little Lincoln is nearing 25 years old and needs a gun liner and gun. I'll probably keep it and set it up for the small wire and use it only for sheetmetal work and set the new one up for heavier metals. If I do that, I'll buy a second bottle for the new welder.

The Harbor Freight units are not worth the money. Save a little while and buy the Hobart or Eastwood.

SPark

[T-Bone]

I agree with LM14. I have a Hobart Handler 140 (about 2 years old) and it has runs great. I considered the harbor freight 90 amp but im glad I went with the hobart. It definitely comes with a more hefty price tag but you won't regret it . Now, an additional question... I've been using flux core wire for outdoor projects but now im starting to patch body panels on my '65 and I want to hook up to gas. What mixture of CO2/Argon is best for patching thin sheet metal?

[charliemccraney]

I agree, get gas (mig) if the choice is one or the other. I also agree that you should get one from a major brand, rather than a generic brand that you may not be able to get parts for. You can find great deals on Craigslist for used but good welders. A pretty basic Lincoln that will do Mig and Flux at Home Depot is $324.00 and you might find that same welder cheaper online.

You have to change the polarity to switch from one to the other. If the welder does not have that ability, you can not use it to do the other. Cheaper welders may not have that option.

[LM14]

I use a 75/25 mix for most things. I don't do aluminum so I don't need pure Argon. I did get a pure Argon bottle once since it was all they had and it sure makes nice clean welds. I've also been stuck with pure CO2 and it makes nice splatter.

SPark

[kstones63]

Doc, If you have a Vern Lewis Welding Supply in Tucson, they don't charge extra for outdated bottles. At least at the store by me, they told me that.

Kevin

[ICEMAN6166]

my lincoln 110 140 amp i think will do either flux or gas. its at least 10 years old.
at the time i think it was in the $350-400 range
thing about gas v. flux is gas welds sheet metal much nicer.
i have done some 1\4 angle and tubing too, always use a few passes on the thicker stuff.
i have done some heavier welding with it, over the rated duty cycle and have never had any issues but always with the thicker flux wire. does frame welding nicely too

sadly our neighbors to the north do not allow you to bring welding tanks thru the border so i no longer have any tanks including for the flame wrench.
have not found any for sale and needing one soon im likely stuck with renting one from the store in town.

[Mike391]

I have the same Lincoln 140 that Iceman mentioned above. It's a 110V machine, and will do either flux or gas. It's about $550 at Home Depot, which is where I got mine. It came with the regulators to do gas, so you would just need to buy/rent a tank.

My welding experience is limited, but as others have said, it's easier and cleaner to weld sheet metal with gas. I repaired the cab floor in my slick using flux core wire. I personally wouldn't buy a welder that wasn't at least capable of being adapted to run gas.

I also personally would not buy a welder from Harbor Freight. They have some decent tools there, but I've seen bad reviews of their welders.

[unibody madness]

I agree with all said so far, and would go Eastwood or Hobart rather than home depot. The Eastwood welder is superior for less money and more adjustable.
Gas welding needs the metal to be a much cleaner metal for those nice welds, where as the flux core will burn through a little dirtier surface. I have the H.D. 220 rig, and wish I had bought the Eastwood one instead.
I would also call other welding shops on the gas bottle

[ICEMAN6166]

Doc
i think the issue may possibly be the regulator, if its old as you say then it could be sticking or otherwise malfunctioning
they are not all that expensive and might very well solve the problem.
as for gas 75\25 is a good mix like Steve mentioned.

i would actually buy a 220v but only 220 is in the house.
means running off a generator to be out where i need to do the welding.

[eaglefan]

Doc..if you use your welder as little as you say check out the wire any rust can cause problems when you are welding. .just a thought. .here in Iowa lots of humidity. .lots of rust

[LM14]

I suggest you take your gun off and take it and the hose into a welding supply house and get a new gun liner made for your brand of gun. I have a Twico gun on mine and it takes a Twico compatible liner or it will give you all kinds of strange problems. Talk to them about the type of wire you run/plan to run and get the correct gun liner (goes from the tip of the gun to the welding machine).

If your welder doesn't allow you to switch polarity it won't work correctly. On my Lincoln I have to change a cable end in the compartment the wire spool is in. On others it's an external switch. On some lower end machines they cannot switch polarity, they are only one way or the other.

The welding supply store should also be able to check your regulator. There are different regulators and pressures for different gases used as shield gas. I had to switch regulators when we went from CO2 to Stargon.

SPark

[eaglefan]

Doc you were looking for answers to your problem just trying to help. .

[HMI1]

A few other things to check:
Is the torch inserted far enough in the power supply to allow the gas to travel through?
What is your gas flow set to?
Do you have a clean contact tip?
What are your amperage/voltage settings for the wire used?

I would much rather use shielding gas when using a wire feeder, as you can weld solid wire as well as a flux cored wire.
This will produce a more stable arc with such a small welder, and therefor produce higher quality welds.

If you can save up to get a bigger welder, I would recommend it. You can always weld thin material with a higher amperage welder.

[mercuryv8]

What exactly is the problem with your welder?

Have you checked the polarity? Flux core wire or solid wire require opposite polarity.

Nic

[ICEMAN6166]

i like this up to 1\2" steel
http://westslope.craigslist.org/tls/5014431749.html

[LM14]

I doubt gluing the liner to the trigger would last very long. That area moves around a lot and can get pretty hot if welding long periods of time.

You might look into getting a Tweco or similar newer gun and hose setup for your welder to make it easier to get consumables. Fighting a gun liner issue is a no-win situation. The problem would be finding one that would retrofit to your welder since it's an off brand machine.

The other drawback to that is you would still have an old welder ad be spending about 1/3 of the cost to replace the entire thing with another 110V welder set up for gas. (Guns run $140 to $500 depending on options).

Although we love to save an old friend and get that warm fuzzy feeling while doing so, sometimes it's better off (and often cheaper in the long run) to bite the bullet and replace it rather than keep piecing it back together.

Good luck with the project.
SPark

[mercuryv8]

Maybe we need some pictures of your welds. A liner problem manifests as a intermitent wire speed problem. Does the sound change when you run into problems? Does the arc melt up the wire? Can you feel the wire hitting the metal? When you stop welding is there a ball on the end of the wire?

If its a gas problem your welds will be porous.

Your power supply will be DC and if its setup for gas should be electrode positive.

Nic

[LM14]

Your inconsistent puddle issue sounds like voltage going into the welder. I have had problem when trying to weld off a generator or drop cord.

I still think it's the wrong gun liner causing your problems. You will fight the issue of the uncommon brand of welder forever in finding the nozzles, tips, liner, etc. These are all consumables and you have to get them right to get a good weld.

Here's some good reading:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/su ... etail.aspx

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/ar ... om-Miller/

SPark