First Truck Noob - 223 idle problems

[cdc3jj]

I also posted this at FTE but haven't gotten much response. This forum is a little more specialized so I figured I would copy it here. Apologies for the length. It's actually 3 pushed into 1.

My name is Cameron and I'm brand new here. I'm 33 living in Nashville TN. I bought my first truck last week, a 1964 f100. It's got the 223 with 3 on the tree. I've been working on a Chevy nova with a 250 for a couple years so I have some experience with 6's but I'm still learning and there seem to be some things unique to Ford.

The truck is as original as I've seen one. With the exception of the bed. The truck (allegedly) was a city work truck from 64-68 with a utility bed. Sold at auction in 68 w/o a bed and trickled it's way to me over the years. It has a plate on the radiator support the reads "64-F-5" which is a mystery to me. I ordered a 64 service manual off ebay earlier tonight so maybe that will shed some light on a few areas.

Anyhow, I'm having some problems setting a smooth idle. I set the point gap to .025, plug gap to .035. Plugs look good and the points and rotor look brand new. The timing is probably behind because if I get within 10* of TDC it studders and dies. The vac advance is nearly touching the block.

I'm going off my experience with Chevy so I'm sure there are some differences. It will run (although not smoothly) with the choke pulled about 15% out but the idle is very high. I'd guess 2500rpm as I haven't put a tach in yet. It revs (climbs) very smoothly, but it won't hold idle for crap. If I push the choke all the way in, also studdering death.

I've also noticed the fuel filter doesn't stay full. I can see a small puddle in the bottom and a slight trickle when the motor is reved. Every inline fuel filter I've ever seen always stays nice and full. Is this a Ford thing? The fuel pump is supposedly new and the tank was supposedly flushed according to the previous owner.

It also starts kind of hard but I think that will remedy itself if I can smooth out the idle. Any ideas or similar experiences? I know it's tough without actually hearing it. I may be able to take a video tomorrow. Also, please assume I'm an idiot when giving advice. Here's a few pics of my (hopefully) soon-to-be daily driver..









Next post:
Had a little time today but didn't make much progress. I changed the fuel filter and eliminated a lot of hose that was between the hard line from the tank and the pump. Also sprayed some carb cleaner around the carb and intake looking for vacuum leaks but found none. I did take a video, although its a little dark. Idle was high as the choke was pulled about 20%. The end of the video is where you can really hear the problems. It died about half a second after the vid cuts off. You can hear it going. Here's a link...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMSnrTG ... e=youtu.be

Most recent:
Checked the compression in the cylinders today. Read like this:
1-90lbs
2-75lbs
3-70lbs
4-85lbs
5-78lbs
6-88lbs
My dad told me he saw online where the compression is supposed to be 150lbs. Seems kind of high to me. I haven't received the service manual so I can't reference that.

I also pulled the valve cover and checked the rods. Everything feels perfect and it has a decent coat of thin black oil. So I think it's oiling correct, just needs some new fluids.

Removed the fuel line from the carb during the cranking to make sure the pump is pushing. Got a nice little splash at the correct intervals.

I don't have a vacuum meter but I'll see if I can pick one up tomorrow. I've never used one so I'll check some youtube vids on how to do it.

I took a video of the cranking and fuel splash. If anything looks wonky let me know. Thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU5HLrQZX8g&app=desktop

[bruceandersson]

It does seem that your compression is low. I do not have access to any manuals at the moment, but have always seen 120+ psi when doing compression tests. The vacuum gauge can tell you a lot. If you don't have enough vacuum, you wont pull any fuel at idle. The old repair manuals have some good trouble shooting sections that can help. I'd get an old chiltons or motors for the vehicle and start with your symptoms. It does look like a great truck to start with.

[unibody madness]

My sons compression numbers are 130 135 135 140 135 135.
I read yesterday that putting a teaspoon of oil in each cyl before you fire it up should let it fire right up, if its a compression problem.
Have you adjusted your valves yet? valves are a major part of your tune up.
And welcome to the madness.
John

[bird55]

Used to have a 223 just like that.
It's not so much that your compression is a little low, It is that it is inconsistent between cylinders. Would be more promising if it were even or similar in range.
With that said I believe you can get it to run better at idle and get many miles out of it.

I recommend a better set of original plug wires too. Autolite or motorcraft, not your local car parts store.

I think your idling issue is with the carb. You can buy a new kit for that and it is a very easy rebuild just go slow and have a spotless workplace with a towel on the workbench in case you drop a tiny spring or check ball.
Also you can learn how to adjust the valves from the manual.
Something you need to check-The harmonic balancer. The outside ring on the balancer may be loose. If so, all bets are off as far as getting it properly timed.
If this is the case, it can be repaired. There is info on this forum about repair of it an other advise pertaining to it. Or I believe you may buy a new or rebuilt one. All doable with some patience and time.

[bird55]

for got to say Welcome! and that does seem to be a decent old truck. Good bumper and sheetmetal up front. Any rust issues?

[LM14]

To me your compression numbers aren't that far apart but they are low. I would run a leak down test on it to see if it's leaking past rings or valves. Leak down will tell you more than a compression test does on condition of the engine.

I wouldn't rebuild or change anything yet, I would start by trying to do a basic tune on everything you already have.

I would first adjust the valves.

I would set the points with a dwell meter.

I would set the timing with a timing light.

Make sure the vacuum advance is working by unplugging it when it's idling.

Then try adjusting the carb.
Screw in the idle air screws until they touch and back them out 1.5 turns with the engine off.
Start the engine and see if it will idle. Adjust the idle air screws to highest vacuum. Set the idle speed.

Good luck,
SPark

[64 f100]

First set the valves. Most likely the valves have not been set for years and have grown tight with usage. Not uncommon to have burnt valves from this. You have two rubber hoses on the truck one that goes to the fuel pump and one that goes through the frame off the line coming through cab floor and to the metal line going towards the carb. Next, I believe .025 is too wide a gap on the points . Should be between 16 and 20 if I remember right. Also, I believe you have the loadomatic setup on that truck which when right works well enough. Carbs for the 223 are well know to have some distinct problems. I suggest you spend some time checking the book before going any farther with trying to get it to run right. Otherwise, you will be spinning your wheels and just playing with it to waste time. I know it's a new toy, and you want to play, but without the information contained in the book you not gaining much and wasting time that could be put to better use. New plug wires are a good idea and condenser also. Old condenser may be week or defective. Also, the old fuel pump most likely will not hold up to the new mix of gasoline and corn squezins. Rubber is not made for it, nor part in the carb also. As to compression, those numbers are low. Doesn't mean the engine won't run decent but won't be a powerhouse, but 223's never were even I tip top condition. Good motors and work horses but won't win any races as is. Tune up data and valve adjustment should be available from just about anywhere if you want this information. Don't even need the book to adjust the valves. Take the valve cover off and run each cylinder to top on compression stroke and adjust the valves . Most likely valve setting is for hot and not cold, but you can find out if you have some to tight that way and may or may not help compression at this time. Since the motor has set for some time since active duty, One you have the points set right and valves set and the motor running pretty well. Then I would do the transmission oil down the carb with the engine running at rpm where it won't die. You dribble it in and don't kill the motor. Transmission fluid is highly detergent and will help clean the valves and lubricate the valve guides. Sea Foam would work also, the tranny fluid is cheaper. All right just looked in my book Valve lash is .0019 cold both intake and exhaust. You were right on with the point gap. Says 24 to 26 . I was thinking of the 292 spec which is 14 to 16. this information is out of the 64 Ford truck manual. One other thing you may need to check is condition of the tank and pickup in the tank.

Rich

[Shadow]

Aloha From Kansas, Great Looking Truck, We Have A Holley 1904 On Our 223 That Gave Us Fit's! Rebuilt It And Still Had Problems. Ended Up Being A Hardly Detectable Vacuum Leak. Run's Great Now..

[LM14]

I thought his point gap was a bit wide, too. I looked it up and he's right on track for his gap. Should be .025 or 37-42 degrees.

http://www.tpocr.com/ford.html

SPark

[cdc3jj]

Thanks for the replies. Hopefully the service manual will be here this afternoon. I'm going to start by adjusting the valves. I found a good tutorial on h.a.m.b. for it. I had a feeling I should rebuild the carb but I'll wait and see if the valves make a difference. Hope to have some time to mess with it tonight.

The truck is in pretty decent shape. Only rust issue is the bottom of the drivers side door. Needs some weatherstripping and a disc set up in front. I'd like to get it a little lower but my main concern is a smooth running reliable motor.

[64f100sixcylinder]

Sounds like a carb issue, rebuild it, clean it while rebuilding. Check every passage with compressed air, low psi, to ensure it's not plugged. Do only one thing at a time, and be sure it's right before moving on to another problem. good luck

[cdc3jj]

Adjusted the valves today. A couple were a little tight and a couple were a little loose but nothing way out. Still had the idle issues so I did the dollar bill test and took a video. Looks like there is some vacuum pulling at times through the exhaust. I'll probably end up pulling the head to investigate. Hopefully this is heading a good direction. If nothing else it'll be an opportunity to change the gaskets. And I'll rebuild the carb while it's off the intake. Here's the video... [youtube]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_XpR1IJAy3o[/youtube]

[cdc3jj]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_XpR1IJAy3o

[cdc3jj]

Pulled the head this afternoon. Cylinders look clean. Push rods all look straight. Valves look to have some carbon build up but nothing that looks bad. Hopefully a machine shop will reseat the valves. Going to start ordering gaskets.

My carb is a auto lite I believe. I looked at autozones website and they show two rebuild kits. I'm guessing one is a Holley and the other is the auto lite. Is there any way to tell the difference? The specs show a ton of numbers but nothing indicates auto lite to me. I did find a number stamped on the mount when I pulled it. Here's some pics. More up top.

[orangeRcode]

Great looking start on the truck. Love the wheels.

Keep picking our brains. Lots of good, helpful guys here.

[cdc3jj]

Head is getting milled, pressure tested and a valve job to accommodate ethanol gas. $400+ but it should be relatively up to date at that point. Carb kit from mikes is coming, along with a
Felpro gasket set and new fuel pump and gas cap from Dennis carpenter. Hoping that will eliminate my fuel pressure problems along with the idle problems. I'm going to do one thing at a time so I know what the root of the problem was. I did check tdc and its within 5* of where it's supposed to be. Might go ahead and get a 300 distributor and pertronix kit headed this way. I might be a single man before this truck is running right, but at least I'll have something to haul my junk and the camper I'll be living in. Thanks for all the help so far. I'll be posting my findings in the coming days.

The guy told me the wheels were factory... but I don't know.

[wndsofchng06]

I'm sure they were made in a factory somewhere!

[cdc3jj]

My thoughts exactly. Although I get more comments about the wheels than anything else. Which really only proves one thing... I need new friends and neighbors.

[ICEMAN6166]

welcome

a valve job to accommodate ethanol gas.

does nothing for the thing most affected by bad (ethanol) gas which is the carb. its even worse for small engines.
i use the lucas additive to prevent carb issues

and

tag on the core support denotes build or date of manufacture of part, they can be found on lots of parts, mostly castings
64 = year 1964
F = june , 6th letter, 6th month (letter "I" is not used)
5 = 5th day of month

[cdc3jj]

I've been using the mystery oil stuff in my nova. I'm not sure of the maker off hand. I'll take a look for the Lucas stuff next time I'm shopping. Thanks for the tip.