tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

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ICEMAN6166
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tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by ICEMAN6166 »

long time ago when i was first building my truck, i spent a fair amount of $ on POR-15
followed all the directions, used their prep and topcoat
did the entire frame, also the firewall cab floor kickpanels and stepwells
biggest waste of $ i ever spent on a truck thing (i tried automatic hubs once too, that was a $ mistake but the por was way more)

so now near 13 years maybe more later i have cut out my entire passenger floor, parts of the lower cowl,kickpanel, all to replace badly rusted metal i thought was taken care of.
also the cab mount needs redone

frame looks like crap too. has bubbles all over if you peel the bubbles you see rust.
not sure how but im going to find a way to get all that off.

there were a few spots where i peeled off sections of the por which in the future will be called POOR-15 by me
anyways it came off like a very tough piece of plastic tape, and it appeared as if the poor consumed the metal and the poor was now the structure
i have heard this happens with some bedliner coatings too, "hard shell" looks good but there no metal left.
on the other side of the coin, my core support which was painted with rusty oleum has only 2 small holes.
same with everything else i used the rustoleum on, couple minor spots, nothing to cry about considering the age

rust oleum was fairly cheap
POOR was not
rustoleum sands off easy, like i said above not sure what to get to get rid of the POOR
certainly not wanting to give that company any more $ although they probably have a stripper
i feel they should give me the stripper free of charge as a way to make me less pi$$ed but i douubt that would ever happen

1\8 inch plate was cheap at the scrapyard so my new cab mounts will be made with that as well as the floor sections
already have started on the new pieces.

the other stuff will be repaired with standard thickness from either what i cut off the unibed or whats in the store in town
i bought some when i was doing the bed

so
bought a shiny chrome grille for my truck
figured id fix the spots of rust i knew about in the lower cowl while i had the grille out just take off the outer fenders and do it
problem was i found a lot more so the whole clip is apart and i have a bit of work cut out.

i would like to know if anyone else has used or had issues with using POOR and if you had to remove it what you used

i personally after having experienced these results would not reccommend anyone waste their money and just sand and paint your frame and metal with standard paint products or powdercoat.
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BarnieTrk
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by BarnieTrk »

ICEMAN6166 wrote: ....after having experienced these results would not reccommend anyone waste their money {on POR-15} and just sand and paint your frame and metal with standard paint products or powdercoat.

Well that sucks. I have never used POR-15, but I feel for ya, ICE. :cussing:
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by Hunter's 64 »

I have had many trucks and jeeps that i have used por-15 on and so far i have had great results , lots of rusty stuff in Florida , salt air , REAL high humidity , What was the temperature when applied ? Never had any peal or bubble , most time you cant get it to come off anything it touches, Sorry you had a bad experience with it.

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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by bruceandersson »

I've used both Por-15 and another product called Rust Seal. The rust seal was used on the underside of a short bed that was driven and stored outside for at least 5 years. Still looked real good when I sold the truck. No long time experience with the Por product. I think that some of the issues come from where we cant easily get the paint. The reason why the front mounts rust is because there is bare metal encapsulated on the inside of the mount and the rust moves from the inside outwards. I've heard of people filling closed in areas like this with foam to keep the moisture out. Same issue with the cab mounts and mid brace on the 65/66 cabs. These areas were never protected from the factory. I suspect the mfgs of a lot of 'restoration' products count on their products being used on garage/trailer queens where there is much less chance of deterioration over time regardless of what was used.
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by SteveCanup »

Painted my frame with gloss black rustoleum which is cheap, easy to handle and looks good. Poor 15 is for rich people. I am not rich. My frame still looks good.
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by slick4x4 »

Por15 can be painted right over rust
But.... Rust can hold moisture & look dry
I think you 'sealed in' the moisture with the por15
The moisture turns into a mild acid that eats even more metal
I would say if using it... One should make sure metal is dry dry dry
Just a theory of mine :2cents:
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by ICEMAN6166 »

slick4x4 wrote:Por15 can be painted right over rust
But.... Rust can hold moisture & look dry
I think you 'sealed in' the moisture with the por15
The moisture turns into a mild acid that eats even more metal
I would say if using it... One should make sure metal is dry dry dry
Just a theory of mine :2cents:


i can add that my frame and cab had very little rust before
all that i was able to remove was gone
also was done on hot dry summer days so moisture likely not an issue
the cab underneath and mounts were in excellent shape before

there are some unaffected areas but no telling what more time will bring for those

i do agree with the above post stating the rust is on the inside of closed in areas, this is obvious in core supports , hence the drilling of holes in the bottom to allow drainage
cab mounts do have drainage in the corners but in reality i think they because of the location let more stuff in than out.

one of lifes lessons
there are no miracle cures, snake oil is just snake oil

i seem to remember brake fluid eats poor like it does paint so im going to take one of the pieces i cut out and do an experiment and see
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grump
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by grump »

I've never used por 15 but I have used chassis black with really good results. I noticed that Astronaut used chassis black on the truck he restored. It too is a little pricey but it works. I've had it on a trailer frame for about 7 years and it's needing to be recoated but it's not uv protected. If I had top coated it it would still be good to go. I steel brushed the rust and painted it and it doesn't come off. Just my :2cents:
kelwar
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by kelwar »

I hope mine works better than that I did my sway bars,front I beams, transmission and some other odds and ends. I had 2 cans the first one was good but the second one all my parts I painted with that can have gone chalky from sitting in the sun both cans said uv resistant so I think they screwed me on the second can. My frame I took the time and sandblasted it and coated it with endura epoxy primer and semigloss paint and there is no comparison may take more time but I think it was worth it and I should have done that with the rest .
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Alan Mclennan
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by Alan Mclennan »

ICEMAN6166 wrote:
i seem to remember brake fluid eats poor like it does paint so im going to take one of the pieces i cut out and do an experiment and see


I agree with you Brian, por isn`t worth a damn in my books, I tried using it on my '28 tudor, could get it to level out as it was supposed to and I painted the brake booster with it and it looked a million dollars, that was until I put brake fluid in the MC, I didn`t even spill much of it and wiped it up straight away :( , blistered like a Alaskan in the sun ! :P
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CTom
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by CTom »

I don't like to see a good product get a bad rap.............I'm sure your problems are real, but I have had years of good luck with POR 15. I'm gonna continue to use it until I have a problem. Hope you find something that works.
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Gary Seymour
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by Gary Seymour »

That's terrible Brian, I hope your frame is still sound and the damage is not too severe.

I remember huge ads in Hemmings Motor News making that stuff sound like the greatest thing.
sgettin
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by sgettin »

I've never used por15 because I just didn't like the way it supposedly worked (or maybe doesn't work). For years I've just cleaned up the rust scale then coated with rust converter then rustoleum primer then rustoleum enamel. Seems to be holding up well and it's cheap & easy. I figured rust converter works because it's the same thing the DOT bridge crew uses on rusted steel bridge beams.
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born4ford
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by born4ford »

Rust is such a tricky enemy. Before I did my frame and radiator mount, etc., I researched for hours and hours on the internet and talked to anyone who I thought might have an intelligent opinion. Then it came down to budget. I wire wheeled everything and put the grinder to anything that looked like more than surface rust then applied a rust converter twice, Rustoleum primer and paint. But, if I had the money I would have gone with the whole line of POR-15 products, just like Brian did. I think that corporate America depends on the consumer turning over their cars and trucks in a few years or, like Bruce said, they depend on resto folks keeping their vehicles in garages and enclosed trailers. One problem is that, despite "guarantees" there is little accountability when their lawyers are "Wall Street" and the consumer's lawyers are usually more "Backstreet Boys".

Maybe the POR company should have to come out and grind off Brian's rotten spots. I'd pay to see that, LOL.
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by LM14 »

Brian, just a thought.

Is it possible that in Alaska you got it well below it's workable temp range?

I've never used it. I don't believe in products like that being able to do all they claim so I'll save my money and cut metal out. Steel rusts and we can never stop all of it.

One interesting use I've seen for it was using it with fiberglass cloth to bridge holes in areas where there are a few pinholes but not enough to cut everything out and replace it all. Long term bandage.

Curious on temp limits.

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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by Toyz »

Corrosion is a fact of life in my area. Between the salty environment and high humidity, any coating is only as good as the surface prep. Blasting to a white surface pretty well ensure good long term results. POR 15 has it's advantages, and I use a significant amount of it. However, for most vehicular applcations, a good epoxy primer, or even a coal tar epoxy, seem to provide equal long term protection on a properly prepared surface. Since POR will rapidly deteriorate, IMO, in a previously opened container, I habitually "touch up" surfaces on trailers and ramp beds with leftover material. With little surface prep,results have varied from totally acceptable to peeling off in sheets. Some of the peelings have shown salt crystals, whether they were pre-existing or developed under the coating is undetermined. :2cents:
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by 64 f100 »

Having recently used chassis saver, I will comment that it needs a rough surface to adhere to. If the surface is smooth, it will scrape off easily. I've used Eastwoods product and been fairly pleased with it but it need painted over to last. Frankly the epoxy primer and rustoleum over that has seemed to work best for me. I don't do show trucks , I build drivers so I don't get to carried away. These trucks had minimal paint on the frames when new, and it held up fairly well.

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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by ICEMAN6166 »

LM14 wrote:One interesting use I've seen for it was using it with fiberglass cloth to bridge holes in areas where there are a few pinholes but not enough to cut everything out and replace it all. Long term bandage.


i did a few very small areas like that, some are deteriorating others are fine

i did all the work in the late spring and summer however it may be possible it went below 32 during shipping
dont remember exactly what month i bough it but somewhere i have the receipts.

had the original 2wd frame all sandblasted then i found the 4x4 and por 15 seemed to be a lot less work than sandblasting another frame and really both frames were not very bad at all.

on a more positive note almost done with the passenger side cab mount, welded with 1\8" plate and 1\8 x 1" angle
still have to do the bolt hole and support piece.
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by The Big M »

Sorry for your frustration, Brian.

slick4x4 wrote:Por15 can be painted right over rust
But.... Rust can hold moisture & look dry
I think you 'sealed in' the moisture with the por15
The moisture turns into a mild acid that eats even more metal
I would say if using it... One should make sure metal is dry dry dry
Just a theory of mine :2cents:


But without exposure to air it should just stay sealed in though, no? Like most I was under the impression that POR-15 was impermeable and virtually indestructible.

I can see something like a core support, cab mount, or inner cowl having rust working from inside out since you can't always get to the inside, but one would think a single layer floor panel that was solid before would be safe. Very odd.

I have heard it is bad to undercoat a galvanized panel, as corrosion can be accelerated at any spot where the undercoat is missing or gets chipped, but I'm not sure if something like that is applicable here.
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Re: tinworms be gone, a rant on por15

Post by slick4x4 »

This is What I meant by "rust can hold water " ...
I have taken a cutting torch to rusty metal
And you can see moisture just weep out of the surrounding area
It's "in" the metal
And usually we wash the frame to clean it
The iron needs time to "dry out" completely
........
Does this make sense ? ... Not saying this is the cause
Just a guess really :roll:
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[b]'' I think what scares me the most about you guys is that I understand you '' ..... KID
'' lookin good, a little paint adds at least 100hp!'' ....... COOTER
'' well an old guy can dream cant he? ''............ICEMAN
''I would donate organs before selling my slick''........ HOOFBEAT RACER
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