Welding Damage
Welding Damage
Took the truck to a shop to have custom stainless exhaust made for it. When I picked it up I couldn't believe how great it sounded, 2.5" pipes thru MagnaFlow oval mufflers dumping underneath with a down turn before axle. I drove the truck back to the garage where I keep it, about 4 miles from muffler shop, and the alternator light comes on. Hmmmmm, it was just over hauled.. So I took it back to the shop that overhauled it and they said, someone has been welding on this truck and didn't disconnect the battery. Diodes fried and the only way that happens he said is from welding. $20 later I have alternator back in and still idiot light is on and sun gauge is showing only 12v. Today he tested Voltage Regulator, it failed. Muffler shop had to weld pipes to collector, the bolt to headers (Sanderson ceramic coated shorty's). Long story short, make sure battery is disconnected when welding and make sure anyone doing work on truck does the same. Better yet, do everything yourself.
Lou
1965 F100 Short Bed
1965 F100 Short Bed
Re: Welding Damage
I take exception to the statement of "the only way diodes fry". Any current surge can do just that. IME, the most common cause is someone attempting to check "charging" by lifting a battery cable. There may be no immediate signs of such failure.
Paul
Paul
The Ford Orphanage
Life's too short for boring vehicles!
My quest to develop a universal solvent is held up by the lack of a storage container.
Paul
Life's too short for boring vehicles!
My quest to develop a universal solvent is held up by the lack of a storage container.
Paul
Re: Welding Damage
Toyz I agree with what you are saying. The charging system was fine before going to exhaust shop. The alternator shop opened up the case and without knowing the exhaust or anything had been done, said for the damage he saw, someone had to be welding on the truck. Said he has seen this quite a few times. I pick up a new Voltage Regulator today and will install on Saturday. Hopefully the problem is solved because I really hate chasing electrical gremlins.
Lou
1965 F100 Short Bed
1965 F100 Short Bed
Re: Welding Damage
Guess I've been lucky, weld all the time on my truck...NOCK ON WOOD
Robert
Robert
Re: Welding Damage
That's a bummer, White97.
In the future, one way to TRY to keep such damage to a minimum is to attach your ground clamp as close as possible to the welding location, preferably onto the same metal structure, not having to depend on the current going throughout bolted connections.
BarnieTrk
In the future, one way to TRY to keep such damage to a minimum is to attach your ground clamp as close as possible to the welding location, preferably onto the same metal structure, not having to depend on the current going throughout bolted connections.
BarnieTrk
- Blackwaterforge
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Re: Welding Damage
Disconnect battery before welding.
It's not worth the risk.
Newer vehicles can be a nightmare if damaged by welding.
It's not worth the risk.
Newer vehicles can be a nightmare if damaged by welding.
If it cain't be fixed with a sledge hammer it must be an electrical problem!
Re: Welding Damage
i bought a surge protector that you just clamp onto the battery. works great and if it fries you know about it. Jeff
it's never too late to have a happy childhood
1966 Long Box 5/8 ton
2012 F150 XLT Super Crew 3.5 TWIN TURBO ......yee haw
2000 Road King
1966 Long Box 5/8 ton
2012 F150 XLT Super Crew 3.5 TWIN TURBO ......yee haw
2000 Road King
Re: Welding Damage
pikupmn wrote:i bought a surge protector that you just clamp onto the battery. works great and if it fries you know about it. Jeff
Not sure how that might work if the source is other than battery, "additional Antizap surge protection may be required for accessories wired into the vehicle’s wiring harness between the point of weld and the battery." I'm not certain dis-connecting the battery is a complete solution on later vehicles where energy may be stored in other places than the battery. My understanding is that this works similar to a coil; the surge is triggered by the breakdown at the end of the arc strike, and may not require a direct physical path to the item damaged. Luckily, I am not a welder; but take pains to assure all circuits are isolated from any direct path before any welding is done. It would be interesting to know what muffler shops do for protection; other than the "ground near as possible". At work, if nearby rotating parts can not be totally isolated by a Micarta Isolation kit, normal procedure sometimes require dual ground cables immediately adjacent to the individual pieces being welded.
Paul
The Ford Orphanage
Life's too short for boring vehicles!
My quest to develop a universal solvent is held up by the lack of a storage container.
Paul
Life's too short for boring vehicles!
My quest to develop a universal solvent is held up by the lack of a storage container.
Paul
- Blackwaterforge
- Posts: 891
- Joined: March 13, 2008, 9:22 am
- Location: Alabama
- Contact:
Re: Welding Damage
If it cain't be fixed with a sledge hammer it must be an electrical problem!
- unibody madness
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: December 4, 2008, 4:33 pm
- Location: Paradise,CALIFORNIA 95969
Re: Welding Damage
Just before retiring I worked maintenance on cranes. The first thing I learned was to make sure outside contractors ran ground cables to where ever they were welding. The number of hours spent repairing damage to everything from motors,generators, electrical circuits even bearings, was astronomical if we missed it,and not all damage was immediately evident.
Turk build thread at:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=18944
It does not matter what you think, it only matters what you do about it!
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=18944
It does not matter what you think, it only matters what you do about it!
Re: Welding Damage
If you're looking for some more info on this subject of Welding Safety & Autos, go about 1/3 down on the page, "Welding on Vehicles and other components" http://www.autocorner.ca/pages/welding_safety.html
BarnieTrk
BarnieTrk
-
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Re: Welding Damage
i always disconnect the battery when welding on the truck, always have done this, the guy who did my exhaust many years ago who was also a slick owner at the time did so as well.
2 minutes could save you $150
2 minutes could save you $150
1966 F250 4x4
1964 Rambler Ambassador 990
Rest in peace departed Slick family members
Cam Milam
Lesley Ferguson
Steve Lopes
John Sutton
1964 Rambler Ambassador 990
Rest in peace departed Slick family members
Cam Milam
Lesley Ferguson
Steve Lopes
John Sutton
Re: Welding Damage
Well after a new Voltage regulator ($30), new diodes in the original alternator ($20), and new alternator ($40) I'm back on the road. Put the rebuilt alternator back in, no charge. Had voltage regulator checked, it failed, so a new one installed, still no charging. Rebuilt Alternator to Advanced Auto where it failed their test. Luckily they had one in stock. Put that in and the truck is charging.
Lou
1965 F100 Short Bed
1965 F100 Short Bed
Re: Welding Damage
Are you considering stopping back over to the muffler shop (with the repair bills in hand) and ask them if they'd like to contribute to some or all of the costs involved in repairing the damage they caused? Not to mention (well maybe I'd mention it) the associated costs of all your running around, troubleshooting and related rebuild/install labor that you don't have a receipt for........
BarnieTrk
BarnieTrk
Re: Welding Damage
I guess I am missing something here. I'm assuming the original rebuilder installed the diodes. Why did they not test the alternator, as well as advise you that if their suspicions were correct; that the regulator should be tested for damage prior to installing the repaired alternator?
Paul
Paul
The Ford Orphanage
Life's too short for boring vehicles!
My quest to develop a universal solvent is held up by the lack of a storage container.
Paul
Life's too short for boring vehicles!
My quest to develop a universal solvent is held up by the lack of a storage container.
Paul
Re: Welding Damage
Toyz - when this was fried I took the alternator to a local shop, they replaced the diodes and where the ones who blamed the welding. He never said, replace your regulator or to bring it in for testing. I put the rebuilt alternator back in and started the truck, and still not charging. I then took the voltage regulator to the local alternator shop for testing and it too failed. So I grabbed a new regulator, but I guess I re-fried the alternator when I started the truck with the fried regulator. I installed the a new regulator, and still not charging. Local alternator shop closed on weekend so I went to advanced auto where they determined alternator bad so I grabbed a rebuilt one off of them, and there on the alternator was sticker 'you must replace voltage regulator with this alternator' Had local shop told me that I could have avoided all the frustration.
Lesson?
1. Don't let anyone weld on your truck without disconnecting battery
2. If you replace/rebuild alternator, replace voltage regulator also.
Lesson?
1. Don't let anyone weld on your truck without disconnecting battery
2. If you replace/rebuild alternator, replace voltage regulator also.
Lou
1965 F100 Short Bed
1965 F100 Short Bed
Re: Welding Damage
Been doing exhaust on cars and trucks old and new for 10yrs. I ALWAYS puts surge protector on the battery and NEVER had a problem! But I make sure my ground clamp is on good part of the exhaust before starting to weld.
2010 Ford Edge
99 Ford Expedition
65 Ford f-100 swb
460 stock other than a double roller timing chain and a s475 TURBO pushing 6psi of boost (now 12lbs)
351 W Pulled and on garage floor in storage
428 4v (R.I.P)
c-6 wide ratio modified
torino front stub
home made ladder bar rear with air bags
11.96 sec @ 110mph 1\4mile (best with the 428)
99 Ford Expedition
65 Ford f-100 swb
460 stock other than a double roller timing chain and a s475 TURBO pushing 6psi of boost (now 12lbs)
351 W Pulled and on garage floor in storage
428 4v (R.I.P)
c-6 wide ratio modified
torino front stub
home made ladder bar rear with air bags
11.96 sec @ 110mph 1\4mile (best with the 428)