Cash For Clunkers that would actually have value

Post by **Greg D** » July 31, 2009, 9:56 pm

One of the problems with this catastrophe is that less expensive vehicles that the poor could easier afford will now be scrapped. I deliver around town for a living - you should see some of the nice vehicles that have "Clunker" spray painted on them in the back lots of dealerships - preposterous to say the least.
I would propose this to those who can really afford to trade want to do this;
Take your decent so called clunker - find somebody with a real piece of junk and trade them straight up. The folks who would have been trading off the nicer vehicle will have a better chance of qualifying for the full $4500 rather than the lesser $3500 (or none at all) after all if it will drive onto the lot....... The truly poor who can not afford this will get a decent vehicle that should last them awhile longer. What person with a worn out 84 Impala wouldn't like to have a 97 Explorer in decent shape instead?
Pelosi may not like it but if we are going to be stuck with this why not make it truly of some value?
People could post on adds free on Craigslist for one example to help find a barter partner.

ezernut9mm · Post by **ezernut9mm** » July 31, 2009, 10:23 pm

they are out of money already. lol. the program just started this week officially.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124898886526095011.html

Post by **Greg D** » July 31, 2009, 10:36 pm

Congress already this AM passed "overwhelmingly" more funds for it though. We will unfortunately be stuck with it awhile I am afraid.
I emailed this idea to several talk show people too, if the word can get out on it, it could actually work.

ezernut9mm · Post by **ezernut9mm** » July 31, 2009, 10:39 pm

that's all we need. to subsidize the country's debt, and people's personal debt.

fmartin_gila · Post by **fmartin_gila** » August 1, 2009, 8:50 am

I think that's a very good idea, but with reservations. Consider how many people who are in the situation you describe who might jump at the chance, then wind up over their heads because of the payments needed to make up the difference between 4500 and whatever a new one would cost. Could get a lot of people in more trouble. It's not really about helping people anyway, it 's about helping the Automakers.

Fred

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » August 1, 2009, 9:48 am

does not help anyone other than the automakers and insurance companys in my opinion.

why would i want to trade a vehicle i own outright and pay minimal insurance on to get a discount on an overpriced new one that i would have to
A make a monthly payment on
B have a high insurance cost
C have to take it somewhere for repairs and pay
D have to the follow the leash law

all for a few extra mpg?

where do you think all those billions are coming from anyway ?

certainly not from Pelosi's pocket.

Post by **Greg D** » August 1, 2009, 10:09 am

1. Most of the dealers around here are matching the $4500 = $9000 off MSRP - plenty of room to pay the taxes & plates out of that.
2. I also have top question this, if this was done to spurr the American car industry which is hurting - how come the vouchers are good on hondas & toyotas etc. too? Why am I the only person asking this?
I think you guys missed my point.
Some can afford to take advantage this, they should swap their decent car with somebody who has a real POS and trade it in - they are going to get the same $ for it. Just allows somebody who really can't afford a decent car to have one. This way decent cars are also not just wasted.

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » August 1, 2009, 10:32 am

Greg
one of the requirements is you have to have had your running trade in registered and insured in your name for at least the past 12 months.

i agree with your #2, should be American cars but then comes the argument that they build hondas and toyotas in the US now too.

a decent vehicle is something different for everyone i guess.
i consider my vehicles decent because they start and run and get me where i need to go with minimal maintenance cost. dont really care if they are shiny and new looking or have air conditioning and other such perks.

Post by **Greg D** » August 1, 2009, 10:51 am

ICEMAN6166 wrote:Greg
one of the requirements is you have to have had your running trade in registered and insured in your name for at least the past 12 months.

i agree with your #2, should be American cars but then comes the argument that they build hondas and toyotas in the US now too.

That sucks - figures the jerks would have screwed up a good plan.

They still make the cars there - they assemble them here.
No different than me buying a jap model kit of a jap car and building it it at my house - still NOT an American car model.
Rose's daughter once said it was so cool that subaru has a plant here that creates no landfill waste. Pretty damn easy when you make all the parts there, pack them on a container ship, bring it here and assemble it, then send all the packing back for the next load. They make it sound like a big deal, heck anybody could do that.

ABA · Post by **ABA** » August 1, 2009, 12:03 pm

Yeah seems they thought of everything to keep the working stiff from taking advantage of the program.

Been having a semi heated discussion over the C4C program here
http://vales.com/evo2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21602

These are NOT car and truck folks like us so keep that in mind.

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » August 1, 2009, 12:30 pm

dont usually post this type stuff as a lot of it is very political and not for this forum however it is relevant to the topic being discussed and i must say that i fully agree with this opinion:

The recently passed “cash for clunkers” program (currently on-hold, as it ran out of funding in one week) is a perfect example of how government policy can make the economy worse. By incentivizing Americans to destroy fully paid-for cars so they can go deeper into debt buying brand new ones, the government weakens an already crippled economy. The last thing we want to do is subsidize Americans to go deeper into debt by buying more stuff. Don’t they realize that is precisely the behavior that got us into this mess?

Think about it this way. If your friend were in trouble because he had too much debt, would you encourage him to take on even more? Wouldn’t a real sign of progress be a reduction of debt, even if he had to cut back on his everyday expenses? What is true for an individual is also true for a collection of individuals, even if they call themselves a “government.” If, as a country, we are even deeper into debt now than we were before, we are worse off. Period. The fact that the additional debt enabled better short-term GDP numbers is a long-term negative.

link to the article
http://www.lewrockwell.com/schiff/schiff39.1.html

charliemccraney · Post by **charliemccraney** » August 1, 2009, 12:44 pm

I agree 100% The whole thing is illogical.

They reward the ones causing the problem and give nothing to those who are not. How about giving me some money for not being in debt and being among those who are not perpetuating this whole mess.

Roger Carter · Post by **Roger Carter** » August 1, 2009, 4:05 pm

Everybody listen up.! Ladies and Gents, right this way!

Come on, Come on! Don't let this opportunity pass you by!!

Step right up!

The line for the FREE LUNCH forms on the Left!!!

Don't be left out!! Get your's before they are all gone!!!

IMHO.

Roger Carter

Fanatic · Post by **Fanatic** » August 1, 2009, 8:00 pm

You are right Ice! One of the biggest problems that caused this mess was the Housing market incentives (ARMs, First time buyers etc) Now the gov is promoting more personal debt.

I am going to DEMAND at least a big "thank you" from anyone I meet that uses this program...........since" I " helped them buy their car with" my " tax money.

If we all go on some type of government assistance program, who will foot the bill?

fmartin_gila · Post by **fmartin_gila** » August 2, 2009, 9:10 am

WOW

This is getting close to being on the edge, but I am walking in lockstep with Brian.

Everything I have, I own. I owe nobody anything. If I can't pay cash for it, I don't need it. Am I doing good? Not according to our Gov, who seems to be trying to entice all citizens in the US to be over their head in debt. I don't know how or when, but it seems to me that something is about to happen in some manner.

Fred

BIGTRIP · Post by **BIGTRIP** » August 2, 2009, 12:36 pm

ICEMAN6166 wrote:dont usually post this type stuff as a lot of it is very political and not for this forum however it is relevant to the topic

car guys NEED *i repeat NEED* to talk about politics in every aspect. its important for us to know who is doing what and how these people think. just because something NOT car or gun related doesnt mean we shouldnt be watching and discussing it because the players in it make decisions on guns and cars and we need to know whats what and how these people think.

politics leads to heated discussions and hurt feelings sometimes but it shouldnt be "taboo". being informed and staying informed and feeling good about an informed opinion and being able to show others whats going on is the only way we are going to be able to defend ourselves (the hobby)

cavinandpavin · Post by **cavinandpavin** » August 2, 2009, 11:24 pm

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009 ... m-is-stil/
i know most of you guys have more than just pre 67 ford trucks i have an 88 my grandfather ordered new and the wife has a 92 fullsize lifted bronco, and one vehicle of that era i would like to have is the fairly rare 4 door broncos they were made in the aftermarket and few have survived i bet i have seen 6 or 7 on the road in the last 10 years. and here is one that according to the laws was 'roadworthy' and tagged and titled for at least the past year. sad. it will be crushed kinda like seeing a slick crew goin to the crusher, well kinda. i would like either one of them if we ever have kids. you know sumthin other than an explorer or expedition.

6166 Junkyard Dog · Post by **6166 Junkyard Dog** » August 3, 2009, 5:42 am

WHAT I WANT TO KNOW Is if all these cars they traded in are no good then who in the xxxx are going to buy them , there is way too many going to the crusher now,,, OH Yes bright idea for those in Calif... Last year state of Calif. paying 1000.00 to crush anything older than a 82 down, now where does that leave CaliF,, in the sxxxxx where they have to give the farmer bring the kids milk IOU'S, Yeah right I can then see the farmer giving a IOU To the banker , that ought go over big or another one costing Calif what 3 to 4 million dollars for Jackson's funerals another waste,,, why should we have to help the automakers , they are the ones that put themselves in the hole,,, whover thought of this

should just craw back under the rock they came from,, Heres a thought hey white house I got a whole yard full of clunkers , you want them come and get them lets see 100 + xxx 4500 == 450,000 that you owe me, yeah right chances on the happening are slim

willy3486 · Post by **willy3486** » August 3, 2009, 6:55 am

BIGTRIP wrote: car guys NEED *i repeat NEED* to talk about politics in every aspect.

politics leads to heated discussions and hurt feelings sometimes but it shouldnt be "taboo". being informed and staying informed and feeling good about an informed opinion and being able to show others whats going on is the only way we are going to be able to defend ourselves (the hobby)

We do need to air out our feelings but one thing as far as politics or any other non slick topic goes is to show respect for others. Thats one of the main reasons I don't post much anymore. I agreed probably about 80% on a post about a year ago. But I got a nasty email,slurs and other uncalled for language thrown my way. I was even told I had serious mental problems because I didn't agree 100% with the person who slurred me. I was just tired of the way thing were going in this country, while many were just beginning to feel the effects of the bad economy it had hit me years before . So guys respect others even if you do not agree with them. Too many people have served,fought, and even died for our rights to agree and disagree with each other. That in mind here is my two cents. Greg D brought up a good point, not crushing the cars and letting someone else use them. I think it is a good idea but it would never happen. Too many rules for a law passed quickly. Washington is more like a spoiled bunch of brats. They cry,whine around to get their way then make the rules no one can follow along the way. One thing about this new program is am I alone in thinking it actually rewards those who are not "thrifty" in the first place? SUVs,the big cars are the ones being in the program. There is nothing wrong with getting those vehicles but if you wanted to use less gas and purchased a more effencient vehicle years ago you are sh&* out of luck with this program.

As far as all these "stimulus" packages goes I could have solved all these issues and it would have been over by now. Here is how to handle Wall ST. As far as the banks and such not one thin dime. If the govt stepped in it should have been the SEC and they should have liquidated the businesses if insolvent. These guys who caused that crap still are in charge and figuring creative ways to get their bonuses. Today 33% of all pay goes to the ceos of this county.

Housing crash. A big problem of this was caused by buying more than you could afford, downsize. Then another big sector is the average joe that is trying to pay the payments but got laid off. Instead of giving the money to big business set up a program to assist with housing that has to be repaid . For example if joe gets laid off and falls behind on payments he could apply for this program. Then the program will pay his house payments for a while until he gets back on his feet. Then when he does land a job he can start either paying back the "govt house loan" and house payment or refinance.

Jobs. throw out NAFTA and make the playing field equal for the rest of the world.I read a long time ago at that time a import auto taken to Japan is equal to the cost of the item. In other words at that time a car that costed 20k from here sent to Japan had 20k in taxes added by Japan. Then a 20k car from Japan to here ONLY had 700 bucks of taxes added. There is something wrong with that. Lets say a factory here in the US made a pair of shoes that cost 20 bucks labor and 5 bucks materials. Then if a foreign shop made the same shoe for 5 bucks labor and 5 bucks materials thats a difference of 15 bucks labor. I say we impose a low labor tax on those shoes for 15 bucks to get them to the same playing field.

I personally think one of the big reasons were are in this mess is that most of the hard working family people in the country that are the biggest group here in the US has had the value of their paychecks to go down. The standard of living started to decline in the 70s. I am a "skilled trained professional" but I have less spending power than some of my family that were not "skilled" in the 70s. We are more educated,trained and skilled today as a whole but we are able to do way less. Personally it sounds like most here are like I am. Hard working and if you can't afford it you do without. We need to get the Govt to live the same way we do.

6166 Junkyard Dog · Post by **6166 Junkyard Dog** » August 3, 2009, 7:42 am

Willy I agree on that housing market deal but I want to know is this going to happen for automakers saying putting new cars in peoples hand that might not be able to afford them then take them back like semi's go around and see how many trucks are on the lot's for sale cuase they made them easy to buy, then run them for awhile then loose them heck some Freightliner places have them in any color you want you want red we got 10 to choose from so I see in the future this will happen on the cars bought from cash for clunkers program...