Pulling the engine - best place to connect the chain

[BigMike]

The engine hoist I'm using is really nice and even has one of those leveling things. The chain has L-brackets on the end. In the past, I've used intake (to head) bolts but didn't know if there was a better place. I'm pulling the engine and trans together.

[MadMaxetc]

I like to use some bolts into the front and back of the heads. This puts the head bolts in tension as they are designed to be. The intake bolts are not very big and could strip out or damage the threads.

[banjopicker66]

I agree with Max that using the intake bolts is not a good idea, for a different reason.
The FEs are notorious for leaking at the rear intake. Every time I R&R-ed an FE, I did it with intake bolts, and every time the intake leaked oil out the back! Apparently, the lifting action against the intake bolt disturbed the intake enough to make it leak, but not enough to induce a vacuum leak, interestingly enough.
I finally broke down and bought a lift plate. It bolts to the carb bolts holding the intake, and works fine. The used it on the last FE I pulled and had no more rear intake oil leaks.
The carb bolts are strong enough to hold the engine, and were good enough to pull my 460 with the C-6 attached.

[rcb1020]

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/1005/index.html

the second picture has the adapter I use

[BigMike]

I guess I'll get a lift plate. I didn't want to pull on the intake like that once it's sealed and I'm going back in the with engine/trans. Advance Auto is a few blocks away and has one for $10.

[Alan Mclennan]

The lift plate is the way to go!, I ended up making my own out of a couple of pieces of angle iron and some spacers.

[*ryno*]

if its just a motor a carb plate is fine, but if trans, converter and fluid all all attached i don't trust the 4 5/16 carb studs that are direct pull into aluminum. i like to use the mentioned adjustable adapter anchored to the front acc bolts and if ya can make it reach the trans to block bolts or intake, at the least those are 3/8"

[BigMike]

I've decided, after a few Vodkas, that I'm just going to give it a great big bear hug and lift it out myself.

[Toyz]

Make sure you have an adequate vodka supply not just for replenishment after the task, but as a good back soother externally as well!
Paul

[BarnieTrk]

...i don't trust the 4 5/16 carb studs that are direct pull into aluminum. i like to use the mentioned adjustable adapter anchored to the front acc bolts and if ya can make it reach the trans to block bolts or intake, at the least those are 3/8"

I agree. I know they sell lots of "intake plates" and lots of folks lift from there....just not me.
I just don't want to trust the wimpy carb stud threads with a vertical pull.
Especially not if the intake is ALUMINUM!!

BarnieTrk

[charliemccraney]

A single sufficiently engaged and tightened 5/16 bolt has more force applied to it than you will ever put on it while lifting an engine out. Four of them is really overkill for the job.

[Alan Mclennan]

my home cobbled one held the 351 Clevo and the C6, without any problems!, just make sure you use the longest bolt you can!

[bluebolt]

A single sufficiently engaged and tightened 5/16 bolt has more force applied to it than you will ever put on it while lifting an engine out. Four of them is really overkill for the job.

Check out this engine plate test page 182

http://www.mustangsplus.com/catalog/engine_10.pdf

[HiBoy63]

A single sufficiently engaged and tightened 5/16 bolt has more force applied to it than you will ever put on it while lifting an engine out. Four of them is really overkill for the job.

Check out this engine plate test page 182

http://www.mustangsplus.com/catalog/engine_10.pdf

Thanks for the article. Next time I do a 390 and T98 combo for my 63 I will use my lift plate and not be so nervous about the weight. I put a 352 and np 435 into my 65 and used the front and back of oposite sides on the heads without a leveler it made for a tuff go getting the engine in level. The lift plate sure would have helped.

[BarnieTrk]

A single sufficiently engaged and tightened 5/16 bolt has more force applied to it than you will ever put on it while lifting an engine out. Four of them is really overkill for the job.

Check out this engine plate test page 182

http://www.mustangsplus.com/catalog/engine_10.pdf

Everyone needs to realize that the above test was performed with a BRAND-NEW aluminum intake and BRAND-NEW carb studs - thus they had NO corrosion between them. Of the engine removal projects I've been involved in, NOT ONE engine I've pulled had a brand-new intake and brand-new carb studs on it.

The last engine I pulled involved a Ford 302 V8 that had an aluminum intake on it that was at LEAST 30 yrs old. We all know how dis-similar metals corrode, and that is what we have with aluminum threads and cadmium-plated steel carb studs. I've seen intakes with carb stud holes that the stud actually wobbled in the hole for the first 5 threads due to the threads being corroded away and/or simply worn down!

Obviously everyone can & will do as they choose; but I will continue to bolt my hoist lifting chain at the front of one head and that rear of the other head. I don't want to gamble on the degree of corrosion there might be between the wimpy 5/16" intake carb stud hole threads or the plated carb studs themselves. So since I won't use a carb plate on my own engines, I will not suggest others to go ahead and use one.

Now if I didn't have any chain to go across the engine, and the engine was wearing a cast-iron intake, I would want to remove the carb studs to see just how well they fit into the intake holes and how far the studs were threaded in - I'd want them bottomed out in the intake holes. Then I might be more inclined to believe the carb studs and intake threads would hold the engine weight.

BarnieTrk

[1964 262 6]

amen brother!

[charliemccraney]

A 5/16 bolt tightened to 60 inch pounds, about appropriate for a carburetor, has a clamp force of about 958lbs. If you can properly torque the bolt in an aluminum manifold without it stripping, then that single bolt can support the entire engine. I do not recommend that one bolt be used with a lift plate because the forces applied to a single bolt by the lift plate will be potentially disastrous; it will in effect be prying the head of the bolt off rather than pulling straight up and applying an even load. At 12 ftlbs, which is a common torque for a 5/16 bolt, a clamp force of about 2300lbs is applied.
I understand that it's difficult to grasp just by looking at that little bolt but physics does not lie.

[Rusted64]

I may have been pushing my luck, but in the last 3 months, I installed a Buick 401ci, with auto trams and a Ford 292ci, with 3 speed using a carb plate. Of course, neither have an aluminum intake.

Should I have used the chains?

[charliemccraney]

Should I have used the chains?

Do whatever you're most comfortable with. Either way will work fine.

[BigMike]

I have a cast iron manifold and just used an engine lift plate to remove the 352 without the trans. I used 5/16" bolts instead of the studs.

When putting the engine back in a few weeks, I plan to put it all back in as one unit using the engine lift plate.