Regearing the '65

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qwertyd10n
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by qwertyd10n »

BigMike wrote:Thanks ICEMAN

I got the 3.31 from Wiki on the Dana 60.

I want to go to a higher gear ratio so that the engine isn't screaming on the highway. The OD units are really pricey. It would probably be cheaper to install an AOD with an adapter kit.

If I was going to go with 5 lugs, I'd use a 9" rear. I'd really like to have a nice set of Cragar S/S wheels on the truck but don't want to invest that much in it.
Mike,

Check this product out, I know a number of guys who are using it in 60s vintage Mustangs and like it: http://www.gearvendors.com/f2wd3s.html

Cheers,
Dion
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BigMike
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by BigMike »

qwertyd10n wrote:
BigMike wrote:Thanks ICEMAN

I got the 3.31 from Wiki on the Dana 60.

I want to go to a higher gear ratio so that the engine isn't screaming on the highway. The OD units are really pricey. It would probably be cheaper to install an AOD with an adapter kit.

If I was going to go with 5 lugs, I'd use a 9" rear. I'd really like to have a nice set of Cragar S/S wheels on the truck but don't want to invest that much in it.
Mike,

Check this product out, I know a number of guys who are using it in 60s vintage Mustangs and like it: http://www.gearvendors.com/f2wd3s.html

Cheers,
Dion
I've seen them. $2800??????? I can swap gears for $400.
1965 F250 352 4spd/Dana 4.10 (sold)
1991 Porsche 964 Cabriolet
2006 Cheby Silverado
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee - yeah, it's a HEMI
Leeroy
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by Leeroy »

^^^^^ yep that's true.
I'm glad I changed mine, however the diff had to come apart anyway for bearings so it wasn't that much extra work. It is a bit of mucking around, especially if you have to pay to get the work done + cost of the parts. Did you plan in doing the work yourself? The gear set alone cost $200.
It is quiter, but still has usual slick wind noise and as I said earlier, not much of a change in economy.

Larger tyres definately out of the question?
BarnieTrk
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by BarnieTrk »

Leeroy wrote:^^^^^ yep that's true.
I'm glad I changed mine, however the diff had to come apart anyway for bearings so it wasn't that much extra work. It is a bit of mucking around, especially if you have to pay to get the work done + cost of the parts. Did you plan in doing the work yourself? The gear set alone cost $200.
It is quiter, but still has usual slick wind noise and as I said earlier, not much of a change in economy.
Larger tyres definately out of the question?
Leeroy,
That's a good price for new gears. I've seen them selling for closer to $300. Then there is the cost of the bearings, shims, etc. that comes in the rebuild kit, which I've seen selling for $150-$200. Finally, the labor to install the new bearings and gears - BigMike mentioned earlier that he had a price of $180 from a fella to do install for him.

As you mentioned, the ride is somewhat quieter due to the reduced engine whine. I also agree with you that these Slicks are about as aerodynamic as a bread box, so there is still considerable wind noise when traveling above 50 mph, depending on the style of mirrors it has and the tire tread design - as Western style mirrors and aggressive thread tires add a LOT of noise. As demonstrated by others on this forum, the noise level can also be lowered by adding sound-deadening sheeting to the cab roof, firewall, floorboards, behind the in-cab fuel tank, and even inside the doors. Such sound insulation materials will help reduce the 'empty drum effect' of the design/construction of these Slick cabs as well as the added effect to moderate the cab temperature.

BigMike,
As for the engine "screaming" at highway speeds, I'd say that turning the engine at 3,500 rpms versus 2,200 rpms merely increases the sound and fuel usage. I highly doubt anyone would realize any difference in engine life (of course I"m assuming the engine is kept in tune, fed quality gasoline, and the motor oil level is maintained and changed at recommended intervals). So in my mind, the issue of the '65 V8 "sounding" like it is unhappy - in reality - it is fine. Lastly, as Leeroy pointed out, the fuel consumption difference was, "not much of a change in economy." In other words, the fuel usage did not change enough to notice, so only the noise level was the noticable change.

I also feel I should mention that if you are regularly running your Slick at speeds upwards of 65-70 mph in medium to heavy traffic conditions, you might want to also consider adding sway bars, converting to a dual reservoir master brake cylinder and changing the front drums to disc brakes - all in an effort to provide better handling and control at such speeds.

FOR ME, the installation of sound-deadening sheeting, OD transmissions, add-on GV units, lower rear end gears, is not necessary. However, my Slick is not my daily driver. My Slick serves me as my work horse truck and it sounds as it should to me. I actually like the sound of hearing the whirl of the T-18 transmission gears, the whine of the 4.10 Dana gears, the howl of the tires, the wind noise of the mirrors, and the purr of the healthy 390 V8 pulling air thru the open air element feeding its 750 Holley carb and exiting out a set of free-flowing headers to dual turbo mufflers. These trucks were not originally designed nor built to be as quiet as a T-Bird, and it isn't. To those folks that want to modify them to act more like a modern truck, go for it. FOR ME, the sounds emitted by my Slick make me smile and take me back to a simpler time and make me smile....and that is good for my soul.

BigMike, I wish you happiness in your quest to restore/modify your Slick to your own preferences.

BarnieTrk :2cents:
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BigMike
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by BigMike »

Leeroy wrote:^^^^^ yep that's true.
I'm glad I changed mine, however the diff had to come apart anyway for bearings so it wasn't that much extra work. It is a bit of mucking around, especially if you have to pay to get the work done + cost of the parts. Did you plan in doing the work yourself? The gear set alone cost $200.
It is quiter, but still has usual slick wind noise and as I said earlier, not much of a change in economy.

Larger tyres definately out of the question?
Nope, labor for the gear swap is between $175 and $250. There is a 4WD shop near me that does them every day. Know lots of my Jeep buds that have had this guy do their swaps.
1965 F250 352 4spd/Dana 4.10 (sold)
1991 Porsche 964 Cabriolet
2006 Cheby Silverado
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee - yeah, it's a HEMI
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charliemccraney
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by charliemccraney »

BarnieTrk wrote:I'd say that turning the engine at 3,500 rpms versus 2,200 rpms merely increases the sound and fuel usage.
I found about 1mpg when I converted to an overdrive transmission, providing about the same drop in rpm. 1mpg doesn't sound like much but when I was getting about 14, that's about 7%. Pretty good if you ask me. A rear gear change will definitely be cheaper but I wouldn't like the around town characteristics then.
I expect to find about another 1mpg with a rear gear change because I believe mine is actually too tall.
Lawrenceville, Ga
1961 F100 Unibody
318 Y-block (292 +.070 bore, +.170 stroke), FMS T5-Z w/Mustang 10.5" diaphragm clutch.
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BigMike
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by BigMike »

charliemccraney wrote:
BarnieTrk wrote:I'd say that turning the engine at 3,500 rpms versus 2,200 rpms merely increases the sound and fuel usage.
I found about 1mpg when I converted to an overdrive transmission, providing about the same drop in rpm. 1mpg doesn't sound like much but when I was getting about 14, that's about 7%. Pretty good if you ask me. A rear gear change will definitely be cheaper but I wouldn't like the around town characteristics then.
I'm checking my mileage with this tank I filled up the other day. The last time I check it I was when I bought the truck from Jonas and drove back from Charlotte. The mileage was 10.2 going about 65mph. I'd jump for joy at 14 which about what my Jeep Rubicon gets around town.
1965 F250 352 4spd/Dana 4.10 (sold)
1991 Porsche 964 Cabriolet
2006 Cheby Silverado
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee - yeah, it's a HEMI
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BigMike
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by BigMike »

Got a price for the 3.54 gears with the master rebuild kit (bearings, seals, gaskets, shims, etc.)
The 3.54 gear, with a master install kit would be $355 delivered.
1965 F250 352 4spd/Dana 4.10 (sold)
1991 Porsche 964 Cabriolet
2006 Cheby Silverado
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee - yeah, it's a HEMI
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charliemccraney
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by charliemccraney »

Ah, then I know the solution. You need a Y-Block :wink:
That 14mpg is at 70-80mph, in 3rd (4th with the 5 speed), 3500-4000rpm.
Lawrenceville, Ga
1961 F100 Unibody
318 Y-block (292 +.070 bore, +.170 stroke), FMS T5-Z w/Mustang 10.5" diaphragm clutch.
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totten
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by totten »

If i had to lower my gears again, i change tranmission to 4 speed automatic and keep 4.10 gears in dana. go with aod hooked to your 352. My 66 has 300,cruiseamatic and changed gear from 3.70 to 3.00. Lowered RPMS 400. Helped but lost some pulling power. TONY good luck. :2cents:
1966 f-100 ranger,red and white,240,cruiseomatic,3.00 gear,a/c.
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BigMike
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by BigMike »

After this discussion, I have a new plan.

Put the regear money towards the C6 install later this summer and deal with the regearing next winter if I decide to do it.
1965 F250 352 4spd/Dana 4.10 (sold)
1991 Porsche 964 Cabriolet
2006 Cheby Silverado
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee - yeah, it's a HEMI
BarnieTrk
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by BarnieTrk »

BigMike wrote: Put the regear money towards the C6 install later this summer and deal with the regearing next winter if I decide to do it.
Is there a problem with the operation of your NP435 or do you simply want an automatic transmission?

Have you determined a "guess-timated" cost for doing the swap - different pedals, flexplate, torque converter, speedo cable, shortened driveshaft, C6 transmission, etc.?

BarnieTrk :2cents:
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BigMike
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by BigMike »

BarnieTrk wrote:
BigMike wrote: Put the regear money towards the C6 install later this summer and deal with the regearing next winter if I decide to do it.
Is there a problem with the operation of your NP435 or do you simply want an automatic transmission?

Have you determined a "guess-timated" cost for doing the swap - different pedals, flexplate, torque converter, speedo cable, shortened driveshaft, C6 transmission, etc.?

BarnieTrk :2cents:
NP435 is fine, I just want an automatic. I've been planning on swapping it in since day 1.

I have a C6 in the basement but it needs to be gone through $950

I have the flex plate and torque converter. I'll have to get the drive shaft shortened or might get a one piece. I just added power steering and the column is from a '71 F250 automatic. I removed the automatic collar and used the manual one from my '65 column, but kept everything to put it back. I even painted it when I painted the column so that is ready to go. Or, I might go with a Lokar shifter but leaning towards the column shift.

I shouldn't need new pedals, just the rod that holds the brake pedal when I remove the clutch pedal.

Hoping to be able to swap in an automatic for less than $1500.
1965 F250 352 4spd/Dana 4.10 (sold)
1991 Porsche 964 Cabriolet
2006 Cheby Silverado
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee - yeah, it's a HEMI
bunchoftrucks
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by bunchoftrucks »

Have you looked at swapping in an AOD. I got mine and granted tied it to a 302 for under a grand. I've see adapters to FE's for the AOD on the net. I have 3.89 gears and 255/75/15's on my 64 and it runs down the highway turn 2600 rpm at 85. Just an idea.
64 F-250 4x4 391 FT
66 F-100 4x4 352 FE
64 shortie 302/AOD
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BigMike
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by BigMike »

bunchoftrucks wrote:Have you looked at swapping in an AOD. I got mine and granted tied it to a 302 for under a grand. I've see adapters to FE's for the AOD on the net. I have 3.89 gears and 255/75/15's on my 64 and it runs down the highway turn 2600 rpm at 85. Just an idea.

The AOD-FE adapter is around $850 plus the trans - not sure what those run.

http://www.transmissionadapters.com/ford_fe.htm
1965 F250 352 4spd/Dana 4.10 (sold)
1991 Porsche 964 Cabriolet
2006 Cheby Silverado
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee - yeah, it's a HEMI
bunchoftrucks
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by bunchoftrucks »

Ouch that is not good.... guess I did real well when I did my 64. BTW I really enjoyed the tear down/rebuild you did, thanks.
Another approach you my or my not want explore is a taller tire, but I have to say I like the look of your truck the way it is.
64 F-250 4x4 391 FT
66 F-100 4x4 352 FE
64 shortie 302/AOD
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Blackwaterforge
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Re: Regearing the '65

Post by Blackwaterforge »

I have a 66 F-250 with a 300 6cyl, 4-speed Borg Warner and 4.10 Dana 60.
70 mph is about 31-3200 rpm's.
I have a Watson over/under/ direct auxilliary that I am planning to install.
I will have the 4.10's for hauling and a 30% overdrive for highway as well as a 50% under drive.
If it cain't be fixed with a sledge hammer it must be an electrical problem!
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