Educate me on CAMS

[Leeroy]

I've put this here because it isn't for the slick.....

I'm looking in the not too distant future to replace the 289w in my 65 mustang.
Current engine of choice is a 347w roller block with victor jnr heads. Carb choice is still up for debate, but seeing I will be doing this only once, I am seriously considering a quad weber IDF setup. I would prefer IDF purely for the fact it is a street car, it actually fits under the bonnet and has a choke (it gets cold here!)
Car has a rebuilt C4, rebuilt 3.0:1 8" diff (not ideal I know)

The cam in the engine is described as:
Duration@50 intake 220 exhaust 220
lift in498 ex520 lobe
centres in107ex117

Sadly, Cam choice is one of my big areas of total confusion......I have NFI!
Car will be strictly street driven (and legally where possible)

So based on everyones experience and (most importantly ) opinions, tell me is this good bad or just ugly?

Id appreciate anyones opinions!

[jamesdfo]

Leeroy: Wait for Steve to show up and give you the scoop on 347's, I'm not a believer, and I'm pretty sure neither is Steve (and he will explain why)

Weber's look fantastic, but don't come cheap, so, EFI is not on the table??

[Leeroy]

Cool, good to know the ins and outs before money changes hands. There are 331's locally but generally aren't any difference in price and only with cast heads only for some reason??

Ive read a bit about the rod angle and 347 oil consumption.

I wouldn't mind EFI, but the plumbing involved is annoying in the mustang and it can be tough to get that stuff legal here, yet a quad weber setup is?!?!?!

[LM14]

347's..... James is right, I'm not a fan.....unless you want to pony up for a Dart block and go big bore. Can you say $$$$$$?

Wrist pin is behind the bottom ring on most combinations and that can lead to oil ring and piston stability issues. Longer the stroke the shorter the skirt. Not talking porn either. Some pistons are better than others. I don't like the rod ratio or the angle the rod is at twice per revolution. This really loads the wall of the cylinder and SBF aren't known for having bullet proof cylinders to begin with.

I really like the 327/331 combinations. They have a better pin location unless you use the longer rods. There are all kinds of ways to get there but the 3.25 stroke with a 5.315 rod on a 331 isn't nearly as bad as a 347 is. I have known too many drag and circle track (especially circle track) engines that don't make 10-12 nights before putting everything in a new block. I've seen piles of blocks split right down the cam tunnel/main webs with 347, never seen one 327/331 that did it.

Do the math

347 = 8.2 deck height - 1.7 (1/2 stroke) - 5.4 (normal SBF stroker rod) = 1.1 pin height, most kits use a 1.09 pin height.
331 = 8.2 deck height - 1.625 (1/2 stroke) * 5.4 (common SBF stroker rod) = 1.175 pin height, better.
331 = 8.2 deck height - 1.625 (1/2 stroke) - 5.315 (better 331 rod) = 1.26 pin height, much better!

Some kits use a 0.927 Chevy pin, that makes it worse and it's very heavy.
Some kits use a 0.912 Ford pin which is better. Helps with weight and moving the top of the pin out of the ring stack

My choice, 331, 3.25 stroke, 5.315 rod, 0.912 pin and internally balanced.

You really gain very little with the 347 and stand to lose a lot in my opinion.

Does your 289 have the 5 or 6 bolt bell housing pattern? Early 289 were 5 and that can cause a problem. Most of the stroker kits come standard balanced for a 28oz flywheel and balancer. You can also get them internally balanced. Street driven it won't make much difference but if you plan to beat on it get it internally balanced. Internally balanced works better for extended high RPM operations.

The Webber setups look fantastic. Work with that supplier for a good cam recommendation. They tend to like a different cam than a common 4 bbl would like in some cases.

Sounds like a fun build, good luck with your choices.

SPark

[64 f100]

Just curious, but why not a 351w. As far as I'm concerned, a far better setup to start with, and you don't have to punch it out to get good HP.
Rich

[Toyz]

In the case of my Cyclone, it is simply a matter of real estate! I started with a 396" Windsor stroker; and invested in the Crites conversion headers. It just wouldn't fit with the shock towers! Current setup is the 331 Steve described with an out of the box set of Hedman long tubes. Still quite snug in a couple of places, probably due to more than 50 years of hot rodding a unibody. A little creative massaging will cure all. If it turns out to be as quick as John's beautiful down-under '64 Comet, I will be well pleased.
Trick Flow 205's, Motorsports 303E cam, currently with a 650 on an air gap manifold. If I ever reach the point where all my discretionary money is no longer slick-related; I would like to do modern EFI in a nostalgia package. I had originally planned to do a Shelby-style twin Paxton setup, mostly for nostalgia, and may do that with another stroker if this one proves too radical for long distance cruise use.
Paul

[64 f100]

That 396 would have been sweet in the Cyclone. Thought of buying a cyclone a few years ago, but have to many projects now. Comets don't command the prices Fairlanes do as a general rule, from what I've seen and are better buys, it seems to me.

Rich

[Toyz]

The 396 is heading to Dale's daily driver, with the Windsor SR's replaced by AFR 185's. Picked up an Edelbrock upper/lower kit at Pate, pistons are cut for the X-cam; should make a decent get to work truck! And I can hopefully make the Power Tour instead of being in the middle of suspension changes just to accommodate a few more cubes. As noted, if this one runs as good as John's; I'll be well satisfied for a while!
Paul

[Leeroy]

Just curious, but why not a 351w. As far as I'm concerned, a far better setup to start with, and you don't have to punch it out to get good HP.
Rich

Good question.....
It's just a matter of everything else that has to go with it to make it work in the mustang.
351w is a tight fit, so will need custom headers which is even more problematic because the car is RHD, so anything out of the box won't work (more $$.)
Current 289 is also an early 65, it's a 6bolt tranny model but it has an Aluminium water pump like the hypo version and my research showes the pulleys don't like up (very tough to get a DEFINATIVE answer.) It's eye watering how much pulleys cost new if you're trying to do from scratch over here. That's really the only 'problems' of going the 351 route, but it's easily a couple of thousand to do.

[64 f100]

Well, if your going to spend that kind of money to get a 351w in there, then it's time to go all the way and go for the gusto. 427 aluminum block stroker would be nice. What's 15 to 20K when it's someone else's money , right?

Rich

[Leeroy]

427 aluminum block stroker would be nice. What's 15 to 20K when it's someone else's money , right?

I absolutely love your thinking.....
Sadly that IS beyond budget (and fuel tank capacity ) so i'll be pulling the e-brake before I get too enticed to do exactly what you suggest......

I'll post pics here if anyones interested but still a month or so away. Still haven't decided on the cam...