stuck valve! - UPDATED POST

flareside64 · Post by **flareside64** » April 21, 2007, 4:58 pm

My '64 223 has the exhaust valve stuck open on the number 6 cylinder. Does anyone have any idea what may have caused this? how I may fix this? I thought the problem I had was a bent pushrod. As I was backing off the adjustment screw for the pushrod, and I lifted the rocker arm up, I noticed that the valve was still down, stuck open. So my theory that the pushrod was bent was wrong. Can anyone help me?

shawns fords · Post by **shawns fords** » April 21, 2007, 6:44 pm

you could have a bent valve, or mabye lots of carbon build up on the valve.

DocDave · Post by **DocDave** » April 21, 2007, 8:02 pm

Had the same problem on a '53 flathead
What caused it was use of non leaded gas
It doesn't lubricate like the leaded, you may want to consider an addative like Octane 104
Or it could simply be carbon deposit as mentioned.
Another theory of my own is that if an engine sits for many years with a valve down or in the open position, the valve spring becomes weaker than the rest
See if you can get the valve to come up with some gentle prying pressure on the valve spring, but be careful, you can break the spring or pop off the spring keepers, or even bend the valve stem.
If you do get it up again, it may stick immediately, or it may keep working.
How do you feel about pulling the head and replacing the springs, or a valve job?
Hope I havn't scared you
Dave

shawns fords · Post by **shawns fords** » April 21, 2007, 8:22 pm

if it is running ive found a quart of trans fluid slowly poured into the engine as its running at idle works the best to clean deposits, in the old days I would just run one quart every 6 months with a full tank of gas, its the best cleaning detergent youll find

eliminator46 · Post by **eliminator46** » April 24, 2007, 10:09 am

I have seen it poured straight down the throat too. A little at a time to keep from killing the motor. Will smoke, but cleans as well. That is also an old Overheating treatment preventing warped heads.

flareside64 · Post by **flareside64** » April 6, 2008, 5:04 pm

Ok fellas. I finally got around to pulling the head on the 223. The valve is definatley bent as it was a real pain to get out. What might have caused this?? Does anyone think that the timing chain could have jumped and caused this?

Is it possible for the piston to come up and smack the valve on this motor? If it is wouldnt it have done it to the other valves?

flareside64 · Post by **flareside64** » April 6, 2008, 5:04 pm

Ok fellas. I finally got around to pulling the head on the 223. The valve is definatley bent as it was a real pain to get out. What might have caused this?? Does anyone think that the timing chain could have jumped and caused this?

Is it possible for the piston to come up and smack the valve on this motor? If it is wouldnt it have done it to the other valves?

Post by **Greg D** » April 6, 2008, 5:09 pm

I don't think a 223 is an "interference" engine (valves & pistons hit if out of time). Gonna be a few weeks before I get it out but I could likely find a good exhaust valve in the one in my Uni. It's being replaced by a 292 4 bbl.

Slick Fan · Post by **Slick Fan** » April 6, 2008, 8:43 pm

Any evidence on top of the piston & the combustion chamber that the cylinder may have injested something? The valve could have gotten bent as whatever it was exited past the valve.

blackagatha · Post by **blackagatha** » April 6, 2008, 8:59 pm

I would think if timing somehow went bad ALL your valves would be out of whack. My best bet, if the spring went weak, and you were pushing engine real hard, the valve may have floated and got smacked. I dont know about the 223, but that happened to my 390. Bent 4 intake valves that way. I owe her a new set of valve springs, yes I do.

And I know it is no longer an issue, but Marvel Mystery Oil down the carb seems to work well too. Be prepared for your neighbor to kick in your front door though haha (my dad was dumping marvel in his '68 LTD in the garage, behind the house. My neighbor, cop saw all the smoke billowing around, and it smelled REAL bad. He didnt know for sure where it was coming from but decided it was our house... Ran over to kick in our front door, and then blasting thru the gate to the back yard screaming "Bert, YOU DONT KNOW {{HOW CLOSE}} YOU JUST CAME TO GETTING YOUR FRONT DOOR KNOCKED DOWN!!!!" hahahaa good stuff. I wish he had kicked in that crappy door so my folks would have put up something nice...

Ford4jack · Post by **Ford4jack** » April 6, 2008, 10:39 pm

I would wonder if the valve stuck then the pushrod caught the edge outside of the rocker seat and drove it down to where it could get hit hard. Is the exhaust port oily/ crusty with carbon?

flareside64 · Post by **flareside64** » April 7, 2008, 4:09 pm

It doesnt look like anything might have got into the combustion chamber. and bent the valves. the exhaust port isnt crusty anymore than normal. I just cant see that if the timing was out that it would only bend one valve. And I wasnt pushing the engine hard, I was olnly doing about 2100 rpm.

shawns fords · Post by **shawns fords** » April 7, 2008, 7:54 pm

My guess would be a lubrication issue where the guide and valve froze then the force from the lifter/ pushrod bent that booger, them lifters are funny looking too. I have a complete head if your looking.

BobbyFord · Post by **BobbyFord** » April 8, 2008, 10:28 pm

shawns fords got it right it's a sticky or unlubricated valve guide. Did the truck sit for a long period of time? Some times when one of these trucks sit, the gas and oil leave behind a sticky varnish-like coating on the valve stem and the valve binds in the guide and, being stuck open, comes in contact with the piston. Same scenario with low oil pressure and lack of lubrication.

flareside64 · Post by **flareside64** » April 9, 2008, 7:52 pm

see the thing is. The motor only has maybe 5000 miles on it since a rebuild in 2005. I had the truck in my storage unit and I would start it up at least once a month during the winter. I took it out for a drive on March 10th 2007(i'm very good with dates). I drove it everywhere no problems. I took the truck home and let it sit outside overnight as the weather was nice and I planned on driving it to a swap meet a couple miles away the next day. It started fine on the way to the meet and It was running and driving fine for about 20 minutes until it ran into problems. The valve was the last exhaust valve at the back of the engine.

I just need to find out what happened so I can fix it and not have it happen again

blackagatha · Post by **blackagatha** » April 10, 2008, 1:15 am

how strange man. If it was a sticky problem, I would expect it after like 6 months of sitting, on initial startup... not after driving all over the place.

And I would expect the pushrods to bend long before the valves, except for a piston-valve impact.

oh yeah, I just remembered a scenario I had with my 223...

I was driving around learning to drive one night, when this horrific screetching sound started coming from the rockers, next morning, I took it apart and found that the rocker rail was completely packed full of filth, from 40 years of crap oil and infrequent changes. It had plugged up, almost completely. I wired all the rockers together so that the oil holes were open, stood assembly in a bucket of hot soapy water and pumped the water thru it, and rooted around till it was spraying like a sprinkler. worked nice.

I bet a similar issue might have happened to you, and the drip down or whatever that is supposed to lube the valve might not have been present, might have galled the guide and siezed? I dunno what happened. Just things to check.

shawns fords · Post by **shawns fords** » April 10, 2008, 9:23 am

sometimes when a fresh build is done, there could be mistakes from the build. maybe the person that did the head put a guide in that was too tight?

"Whitey Ford" · Post by **"Whitey Ford"** » April 11, 2008, 12:45 pm

I was reading more to the top of the page but Trans fluid is a good cleaner for the engine? Would that be better to add to the fuel or actually pour in the card straight down while running...ive never heard of that but its not strange.

shawns fords · Post by **shawns fords** » April 11, 2008, 6:03 pm

[quote=""Whitey Ford""]I was reading more to the top of the page but Trans fluid is a good cleaner for the engine? Would that be better to add to the fuel or actually pour in the card straight down while running...ive never heard of that but its not strange.[/quote]
yes it cleans as you run. lol
I always would run 1 quart in a tank in my 78 F150 with the 390 and my 85 F250 with the 460 usually one for every 3000 miles. If you ever see a cylinder head thats been taken off after a automatics vaccum module goes bad and the fluid would get sucked up through the intake, the valves are spotless.
If you only drive it once in a while. then you can just pour it down the carb as your idling and controlling your RPMs by Hand, either way dont put too much in at once. usually a cap full (the cap from the bottle of trans fluid) works best to do it in the driveway. you probably only need to use a pint tops that route

Ford4jack · Post by **Ford4jack** » April 11, 2008, 11:03 pm

I wonder if the guides were a reamed a bit on the tight side and # 6 exhaust stuck because its the cylinder that would run the hottest on an inline engine.