Slick 60's

A post from May 2014 discussed the choice between a 360 and a 302, and Doc Pepper suggested the 240. My situation is a little bit different. I have a 64 F100 Custom Cab which has had an International Harvester engine and transmission in it since the mid 70s. Currently it's a 345 that needs new bearings, coupled to a Chrysler 727 transmission. Together they might weight 900 pounds, and delivered just under 15mpg. The IH engine only has a motor mount in the very front. There are no side motor mounts.

So why would I rebuild this engine, other than sentiment, when I can put any engine into the truck with the goal of getting better performance and better mileage? Ford, Buick V6, 225 slant 6, turbo diesel, whatever. If I swap out the transmission, then I have almost no limitation$. If I keep the 727, then my limits are whatever can connect to it. Clearly a Hemi would be awesome, but that's a dream. I'm interested in spending well under $1,000. What would you use if you wanted it all -- performance, reliability, and economy?

Sidenote to Doc: Electric would be awesome, and I have considered it, but my first electric project will be my pontoon boat.

BTW, due to responsibility issues, I haven't been on this site since 2007!! And I remembered my username, of course. Great Site!

Many thanks,
Bob

Ford PI 4.6 fuel injected with aode transmission.

Well That's an interesting option. Ebay offers some interesting choices, so it's a true option. But wouldn't it be a bit involved to move all of the computer equipment though? I would like fuel injection --that's a good point.

While I won't recommend a specific engine, for economy and ease of maintenance I'd aim for one that was built for todays fuels and oils. Todays fuel has ethanol which attacks the rubber in the fuel system. Then you have todays oils which do not have the zinc necessary to keep the cams from wearing too fast on older engines. I'd also lean towards fuel injection and electronic ignition. While I grew up enjoying being able to replace points, cap, rotor and condenser, it has now grown tiresome. Especially after having new cars that go for 100,000 miles or more with little or no maintenance beyond oil changes.

That all being said, I'd put up with all of it for a nice vintage engine with multiple carbs, headers, and a good growl. The problem here is that you'd spend the budget on just the carb setup.

If the maximum dollar limit is "well under $1000," assuming the frame is not altered from stock, a Y block. It'll bolt right in. By the time you acquire a used running engine, a transmission, and possibly drive shaft, you'll be pretty close to $1000. You're not going to get any great compromise of performance, reliability and economy for that price. You will get something that will get you down the road, and that's about it.
Even a good mainstream engine and trans will probably cost about the same and then you have to get it in the truck. Depending on your skill set, you may be able to do it for well under 1g, but most people could not.

300 I6

Decent power
Decent fuel mileage
Can be lugged.... Or raced
Long life

slick4x4 wrote:300 I6

Decent power
Decent fuel mileage
Can be lugged.... Or raced
Long life

If you don't have to stick with a Ford engine then I'd go with a 4.8 or 5.3 and 4L60e from a Silverado/Tahoe/Suburban. Stock is around 300 HP and just a cam swap will make 400. You might be able to luck up and find an aluminum 5.3 that'll weigh 80-100 pounds less than an iron block and they're just as strong. Standalone harnesses are available and the stock computer can be used. If you want a stick shift instead, a 6 speed from an F-body Camaro is a direct swap since the 5.3 is based on the LSx architecture. They get good mileage too; the 6.0 LS2 in my sister's 4300 pound Trailblazer SS with 4.10 gears gets 16-17 mpg if you drive normally and I have gotten as high as 23-24 mpg driving like grandpa. A smaller 4.8 or 5.3 in a lighter truck that's geared taller can get even better mileage. Stock LS1/6 speed F-body Camaro's will get 28 mpg on the highway, but they're way more aerodynamic.

And any LS-X combo that can be found for $500.00, I will gladly buy! My extremely light-footed wife gets 12/13 overall out of her 4.10 geared SAAB "Trailblazer SS with added handling"; my LS-X Silverado Vortec Max with similar engine and displacement does manage about the same, even with my heavy foot and 40 % towing. This is from day one to the current 64,000. Probably not a bad choice if one wanted to wrap up several thousand to bastardize the Ford. If spending that much money; from a re-sale basis, one would do better with a Coyote crate motor or late model truck setup; IMO.
Getting back to the original premise; I have got to agree, the 300 I-6 probably would provide the most all-around "bang for the buck" in that low-budget price range.

Paul

Just an after-thought, but if I had a worn-out 345 delivering 14/15 mpg, and the installation was somewhat palatable; budget reality would probably dictate limiting my choices to an admittedly expensive rebuild, or an attempt to locate a 345 in good condition.
Paul

Toyz wrote:And any LS-X combo that can be found for $500.00, I will gladly buy! My extremely light-footed wife gets 12/13 overall out of her 4.10 geared SAAB "Trailblazer SS with added handling"; my LS-X Silverado Vortec Max with similar engine and displacement does manage about the same, even with my heavy foot and 40 % towing. This is from day one to the current 64,000. Probably not a bad choice if one wanted to wrap up several thousand to bastardize the Ford. If spending that much money; from a re-sale basis, one would do better with a Coyote crate motor or late model truck setup; IMO.
Getting back to the original premise; I have got to agree, the 300 I-6 probably would provide the most all-around "bang for the buck" in that low-budget price range.

Paul

I bought a 5.3 with intake and exhaust manifolds for $150 without the accessories. I've seen 4L60e's for $100-150. They're on craigslist and local LSx facebook groups all the time. I even found an aluminum L33 5.3 short block for $275! The 4.8's and 5.3's are so plentiful from wrecks that they are dirt cheap. A buddy of mine sold a complete 4.8, 4L60e, and standalone harness/computer for $700 bucks ready to bolt in and drive. My sister usually gets 14-15 mpg and she's not a slow driver. With the craze surrounding LSx engines, it won't hurt the resale value; probably increase it. The old Chevy trucks with LSx swaps always bring a premium over small block or inline 6 trucks.

pretty hard to find anything not needing at least minor work for $500 these days but there were lots of 300 6 cyls. produced and plenty of parts available.

as Paul mentioned above replacing the same engine is likely the most cost friendly option if you can find one.

Those IHC engines are tough old beasts
I had a 345 in a 62 4x4
Tough ... Tough... Tough

I think you could probably sell it to someone for some decent $
Then put that money on a FORD
(Chebby engines deserve the privilege to be in Chebby trucks)

If I'm not mistaken , those 345 engines had a core charge of around $500

[/quote] it won't hurt the resale value; probably increase it. The old Chevy trucks with LSx swaps always bring a premium over small block or inline 6 trucks.[/quote]
"always" is an awful limiting word! By that statement; I should take it that the value of one of your restorations as listed in your signature would "always" increase with an LS-X conversion? Even a $700.00 (plus associated parts) swap?
Paul

I vote for a 300 I6.

If you put anything other than a stock engine that was offered at the time, it is a MODIFICATION...not a RESTORATION.

I will never vote for a Cheby swap.

MadMaxetc wrote:I will never vote for a Cheby swap.

x2

only non ford engine i would ever consider is a cummins diesel.

that said its your truck and your $ as well as your time and labor.

64since79 wrote: The IH engine only has a motor mount in the very front. There are no side motor mounts.

neither did the 64 ford truck engines. which means most likely you could install a 292 y block and trans with no modifications at all provided the factory crossmembers are still in place and it sounds as if they are and thats why the cornbinder engine was used to replace the original ford engine.
the 292 will not increase mileage but if you were to find a T5 5 speed to put behind it you would get the od gear.

Got my curiosity up! I don't remember a 727 with side mounts, so I have no idea how they were set up, and whether they would clear the Ford's second cross-member. If a 345 were to be utilized, and depending on the current gearing; the early A518 overdrive assembly can be attached to some of the 727's, (maybe all). That would yield a potential increase in fuel economy at a relatively reasonable price, although your current mileage would indicate the setup is fairly efficient currently. I know a person with a 345 Scout who would be over-joyed at that mpg!
Paul

64since79 wrote:Well That's an interesting option. Ebay offers some interesting choices, so it's a true option. But wouldn't it be a bit involved to move all of the computer equipment though? I would like fuel injection --that's a good point.

Doing one right now.

I have the 300 in my 66 4x4 but if I was to purchase one to swap, I would go the route that my boy Zak went. he got a nice running 351W reasonable and he cleaned, painted and had a nice exhaust put on. coupled it with a C-6 and away he went.. on the highway he gets about 22 MPG... not bad for a hot rod truck that he built to drive.... I got between 11.5-13 MPG's out of my 300 on the road to Slickstock and back....

unless someone has info i've missed having the harness reworked for the 4.6 is $600-800 unless you can do so yourself so there goes most of your budget just for the harness. therefore i think it's out..........

if the 727 is in good shape i'm almost sure it's small block mopar pattern so a 318 or 360 would be an easy swap. if i'm thinking wrong and it uses the big block 727 then look for old mopar powered motorhomes for a 440 . my buddy has one sitting in his basement that he did just that and by the time he scrapped out the mh he had a nice a/c for his camper and a 440/trans and had about $200 in all of it haha....

you could sell the 345 core and the 727 and increase your fund and a 302/351/300 with an auto behind it should be easy to do in your budget.

or better yet do the above and search out a big block buick/olds/pontiac. if you get lucky and get your donor engine cheap putting a 700r4 behind it via an adapter would be nice. a 200-4r will bolt right up but unless you drop for a beefed up version i'd probably take it easy on it(though many have beat them pretty good behind them with good luck). theres plenty of guy on those dedicated forums with those set ups in 4000+ lb cars pulling high teens/low 20s mpg...


a caddy 472/500(ok put the 425 in there to) could do the same as the above also.


i've been looking for a buick 455 for my uni for a bit now. theres a coupla caddi donors up cheap right now in my area including a low mile 425 with trans for $400obo i'm giving it another week and then i'm going to look at the 425 with $250 in pocket hahaha...ken....