Slick 60's

I'm about to pull my 352 for rebuild but have been considering a swap for a higher horsepower Windsor. My question is, how much horsepower is really usable in a swb slick? In other words, at what horsepower point will there be silly wheel spin when I put my foot in it? As much as building a stroked 351W with aluminum top end is alluring, I'm wondering if it would be a waste of motor and money for my needs. I want a responsive and torquey motor for street use and enough cam lope for the cruise nights, but that may be all the performance I really need, especially if more would just result in crazy wheel spin.

Those with 352 experience, let me hear from you. Were you happy with the motor, especially with cam/header/intake upgrades? I know they're gas hogs but this truck won't be driven enough for that to matter.

Would probably also keep the 3 spd manual (in the near term at least) for simplicity's sake.

Thanks!

David

How do you intend to use the truck? HP can be misleading as it is directly related to engine speed. What does 600 HP at 9000 rpm do you if you run around at 2500 rpm? High HP/rpm are great if you are going to race the vehicle. Torque is what gets you moving, and is related to the engines stroke. Gotcha is that the longer stroke works against higher rpms. Longer stroke small block = 351W. Big block would be your 390. Either should take care of anything beyond full race.

You can spin the wheels with the 352 if you want to. As to what to do, I am a fan of the 351w and parts are easy to find. Overkill is easy to do, and most of us are guilty of wanting more power. The 352 is a good and reliable motor with lower compression that will use the bear p--s we have for gas now days. Several ways to improve this engine, frankly I would get the 390 parts to install. There are other options for increasing the power of the 352, but these involve finding some rather expensive heads with small chambers for improved performance. Smallest chamber for FE is the COAZ-D or C heads , I forget which at about 59cc's . The last set I saw for sale was around 800 to 1,000 dollars. Many of these trucks came with C4AZ heads, which are a good head but the smaller chamber in makes for more compression. Problem with rebuilding any motor today are the costs. If I recall, 352 pistons are expensive as those parts are getting harder to come by. 390 parts are easier to come by in that regard. As to 351w , lots of parts available and most likely you can find a good ready to rock motor for reasonable money. IN addition to the engine, to set the truck up right for a 351w you will need the motor stands for that engine, although I've seen these installed on the 352 perches it involves some tricky linkage problems for clutch and other parts. You would have to do some fabricating. A cam and intake make a world of difference and of course dual exhaust with headers. You might be better off looking around for a good used 390 with cam and intake already on it.

Rich

Thanks for those responses. This truck will be street driven for cruising. I'd like it to maximize its low and midrange grunt and throttle response. I'm starting to believe that headers, intake and cam on the 352 might be sufficient for my needs.

I hope this engine is rebuildable. Plan is to pull it this weekend.

Mojave922 wrote:Thanks for those responses. This truck will be street driven for cruising. I'd like it to maximize its low and midrange grunt and throttle response. I'm starting to believe that headers, intake and cam on the 352 might be sufficient for my needs.

I hope this engine is rebuildable. Plan is to pull it this weekend.

That's what I did. Comp Cam high energy 268, Edelbrock intake and 600 cfm 4 barrel.

You should be able to get away with a good amount of power with limited slip, wider tires, and traction bars, limited slip probably being the most important.

The biggest problem I found has less to do with accelerating in a straight line, and more to do with making a right hand turn onto a road. You think you have plenty of time so you start puling out and all that wheel does is spin and your time begins to run out quickly. A well tuned 150-200hp engine can be quite dangerous in that regard. On the other hand, 300hp or more with attention paid to the area of traction probably won't have that issue.

This 352 is a stock OEM piston and OEM 4v camshaft 66 Galaxie engine. D2TE-A heads, Edelbrock SP2P-390 intake and a Quadra Jet. Cam is advanced 4° and the carburetor could use some tweaking. The factory deck and .038" head gaskets give it .091" quench. With machine work, dished zero deck pistons it would be a responsive engine. As of now it gets 13.3 running 80 empty. It was able to pull this load up I-35 between 60-68 mph. The wind would start swaying the motor home at 70. Staying out of the secondaries it got 6.3 mpg.



In stock form the 96 was gutless in comparison. I set the timing forward and gutted the rattling converter, that helped. When the factory blueprints a truck engine it is for maximum use in harsh conditions. Optimum tuning on either engine will be an improvement giving you don't drive 20,000 gvw Death Valley to Pikes Peak on a regular basis.

orangeRcode wrote:

Mojave922 wrote:Thanks for those responses. This truck will be street driven for cruising. I'd like it to maximize its low and midrange grunt and throttle response. I'm starting to believe that headers, intake and cam on the 352 might be sufficient for my needs.

I hope this engine is rebuildable. Plan is to pull it this weekend.

That's what I did. Comp Cam high energy 268, Edelbrock intake and 600 cfm 4 barrel.

How happy are you with that combo, orangercode? Are you running headers, and if so, what brand -- any fitment issues?

Thanks!

Mojave922 wrote:I'm about to pull my 352 for rebuild but have been considering a swap for a higher horsepower Windsor. My question is, how much horsepower is really usable in a swb slick? In other words, at what horsepower point will there be silly wheel spin when I put my foot in it? As much as building a stroked 351W with aluminum top end is alluring, I'm wondering if it would be a waste of motor and money for my needs. I want a responsive and torquey motor for street use and enough cam lope for the cruise nights, but that may be all the performance I really need, especially if more would just result in crazy wheel spin.

Those with 352 experience, let me hear from you. Were you happy with the motor, especially with cam/header/intake upgrades? I know they're gas hogs but this truck won't be driven enough for that to matter.

Would probably also keep the 3 spd manual (in the near term at least) for simplicity's sake.

Thanks!

David

Here is a post on long FE rods. A few post below the rod photo there is a layout on how the rods were preped for racing.

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/ ... 4307.0;all

To be totally honest, you need 100-150 HP to spin the tires on a slick if that's the goal.

Build a street engine for drivability, not HP. A fresh stock rebuilt with a mild cam and good carb with proper tuning will do everything you need. The worst things you can do to a street engine are over cam it and over carb it. Also, keep the compression around 9:1 or you limit your gas choices severely.

We all like the rump rump of a healthy cam but the reason it does that is overlap on valve openings. That tends to kill bottom end torque, exactly the opposite of what you want on a street driven engine. Street engines should be built with a broad, flat torque curve and ignore the HP numbers. Not the answer you probably want to hear but you will be much happier with a torque engine than a HP engine.

You want everything done by 3500-4500 on a street engine. Most big cams start working around 3000. See the problem? You will very seldom see anything above 4500 on a street driven engine.

I would rebuild the 352 with a good intake, carb and mild cam, it would be cheapest overall since you wouldn't have to change anything in the actual truck.

If you have a 351W and want to go that route, they really respond well to intakes, cams and carbs. Headers help a bunch on any Windsor style Ford since the exhaust is so restrictive.

If you mostly do around town driving and very little highway driving, look at a gear change to keep the engine working.

SPark

I know where you are coming from, I had the same decisions to make. I finally rebuilt the 352, bored .30 over with a Comp dual energy cam, adjustable rockers (somewhat rare in an FE), Weiand intake with a Carter AFB (btw, is identical to the Edelbrock) and Hedman headers. It is no screamer but has great low end torque and will pull a house down. Best of all it sounds great. The cam is rather mild because of the low rpm these FE's prefer, it is configured for low end pull not top end speed.

BAMAFORD wrote:I know where you are coming from, I had the same decisions to make. I finally rebuilt the 352, bored .30 over with a Comp dual energy cam, adjustable rockers (somewhat rare in an FE), Weiand intake with a Carter AFB (btw, is identical to the Edelbrock) and Hedman headers. It is no screamer but has great low end torque and will pull a house down. Best of all it sounds great. The cam is rather mild because of the low rpm these FE's prefer, it is configured for low end pull not top end speed.

Sounds great bamaford. Do you recall which dual energy cam you got? I'm eyeing the 265DEH.

Sorry I do not remember, it's been about ten years ago. I may still have the box, I'll look.

The 265 would be a good cam for your half ton. Most cams can take 4° advance without issues but you should always mock one up. Keeping a few used head gaskets on hand for mock up is a good idea. I use clay in a Ziplock bag. Install valvetrmain, put clay on top of the piston and rotate engine. The clay imprints will tell you your quench and valve clearance. Your 352 will probably respond well a factory GT S or Edelbrock Performer intake.

My F-100 responded well to 3.70:1 gears. Decent hole shot and top end. Commonly found in 1/2 ton I6 pickups with manual transmissions. 3 out of 4 I ran were Fords limited slip version.

I'm going to add my two cents, Sense is what I lack, however, when we build engines you have to consider "Breathing" 2 1/2 pipes out the back is best.
I built a 292 with 3" exhaust. I can smoke my wheels, pull down a house or just simply cruise. Granted I only get 13 miles to the gallon, but I have a truck that can do whatever I ask of it
If your engine can't breathe, it can't run right. Sometimes the obvious is overlooked.
Spend your money wisely just don't overlook the simple!!!!!