Engine Swap - Your thoughts and opinions please

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » November 4, 2007, 3:38 pm

Realizing that there is a ton of knowledge and information here on this site, plus some strong opinions I would appreciate your thoughts. Please bear with me as I try to explain what I'm planning and the items I need some advice on.

I am resto/moding my 1964 Ford F100 short bed. It is very original and I would like to keep the original looks as much as possible. I have my mods and upgrades planned out with a scheduled completion date of spring of '08.

I currently have it in the paint shop having the interior painted. Adding all new rubber for vent windows, windshield and back window, anti-rattlers, division bars, door rubber, etc. Plus new seat covers, headliner, sun visors, knobs, horn ring and rear view mirror. It should be looking really good with a couple of weeks.

Next upgrades planned (in order) to solve the "driving like crap" problem are:

1) disk brake upgrade
2) power rack and pinion setup (bolt on)
3) Rear sway bar (already added front sway bar)
4) Lower 2" w/lowering shackles in rear and leaf removal in front.
5) Air conditioning (can't take another Louisiana summer w/o air)
6) T-5 Mustang transmission behiind my stock 223 "6"

Whew! Still with me?

My quandary comes from having the ability to hang an air conditioning compressor, a power steering pump and an alternator on the 223 engine.
(It's as much of a physical problem as a power robbing one) I don't need tons of power, I'm not a racer, I just want something thats runs good, is smooth and reliable for around town driving and cruising.

My question is what V8 engine swap would you recommend as far as ease of install, as well as availability and cost? The Y-Block 292 was the V8 engine for the 64 (last year). and would keep it looking original...or should I go to the 302 or the 351? I think the 390 is a little overkill but it may not be any heavier than some of the other solutions. Or should I go toward the Mustang 289 family of engines? I'm open on the transmission.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and recommendations.

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » November 4, 2007, 3:51 pm

considering the y block is pretty much a bolt in in place of the 223 and will be easy to hook up the accessories to it makes it a prime choice.

heres a bunch of comments about choices on this post
http://fordtruk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3902

BigTim · Post by **BigTim** » November 4, 2007, 4:34 pm

With you wanting to put a T5 in I would think a 302 would be a natural choice.

I guess it depends on how resto vs. how mod you want it.

Nice looking truck, keep us updated with pictures.

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » November 4, 2007, 4:41 pm

I agree with both the above. 292 (I would do a 312 or a stroker, see John mummerts site) would be a bolt in, but not with your tranny, although that can be done too.
Easier, for the tranny is a 302 or 351W.
How original looking do you want?

Y block link http://ford-y-block.com/

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » November 4, 2007, 4:48 pm

I would like to keep it "looking" stock unless that will prevent me from having enough power to run the accessories and still drive well.

Actually I'm open on the transmission. Was looking at the T-5 because of the easy mate up to the 223 through Mummerts.

Jarrod · Post by **Jarrod** » November 4, 2007, 4:49 pm

Another option would be a 300 I6. Bolt the T5 to it and make a nice modern but original looking combination. GO to Clifford Performance to wake the thing up and Voila, you have the I6 for originality but wih the 300 you can still go to any part of the country and get parts for it with out the Parts Monkey looking at you wierd cuz the 223 is not in the computer.

Post by **Greg D** » November 4, 2007, 5:51 pm

If you go with a 300-6 or a Windsor you would be able to use a M5OD tranny from a 92-96 F 150. M5ODs are more common than T-5s in good condition (it's tough to find a used T-5 that isn't beat to rebuild statis), cheaper (they don't work in Mustangs), have a better shifter location and length for a truck (shifter is about the same length as the T-18 ). It's what I'm using in my Uni just for these reasons. They have an issue with a seal around the shifter that usually needs fixed (or else they will throw out the fluid and go dry) but you have to remove the shifter to install it in the truck anyway, easy fix.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » November 4, 2007, 7:55 pm

I'd do the 302 swap and paint the mill like a 60's 260.
Black block, red valve covers with the old tall airlid on it.

302 is revolver reliable, huge parts availability, crap loads of oldstyle brackets still around, Many trans choises, decent on milage, great with AOD and just fine for pulling a 4000 lb truck up to highway speeds.

You will enjoy the addl power when your steering and ride improves.
I say 302.

Post by **Greg D** » November 4, 2007, 8:04 pm

One thing to remember if you are looking to make the truck more comfortable, V-8s are smoother than 6s. The Windsor is "period" correct for your truck, just wasn't a factory option. Heavy's idea of backdating a 302 is VERY COOL. I am going the same route just in a performance style.

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » November 4, 2007, 8:06 pm

All the choices here are good ones, but I personally would do exactly what Hauler says, if it were my truck. I have never been a fan of sixes, they are chebby motors to a fan of ford trucks during the flathead era, athough the 300 has a rep. for being bulletproof, they just don't sound like a V8 (see sig)
Y blocks are bulletproof too, but much more expensive to buy parts for, and they are harder to get.

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » November 4, 2007, 8:21 pm

Hmmm! Thanks guys. I hadn't thought of the 302. I like that option. In a similar vein, I've actually found a 289 with a 4 speed top loader in a neighboring state. How would that work? Thought it was a little pricey $950 for both but in looking around it might not be too bad considering??

robert porterfield · Post by **robert porterfield** » November 4, 2007, 8:52 pm

just a thought, if the 300 was used it could be bolted in w/ 4x4 style front mount & bell hsg. (advise iceman?) with that said some models of f150's thru the early '80,s had what is called an SROD trans in them that would bolt up to the 300 bell. this trans looks like a toploader ford (car) and has 30% o/d in 4th gear. srod is for single rail overdrive the sift linkage is internal i did a swap on a 66 short narrow for a buddy using a stought 429 w/no problems my check it out hope this helps

Post by **Greg D** » November 4, 2007, 10:57 pm

Gritsngumbo wrote:Hmmm! Thanks guys. I hadn't thought of the 302. I like that option. In a similar vein, I've actually found a 289 with a 4 speed top loader in a neighboring state. How would that work? Thought it was a little pricey $950 for both but in looking around it might not be too bad considering??

That ain't bad at all, toploaders don't go cheap anymore. But if you want OD go with the M5OD or T-5. SRODs have a HUGE gap between 3rd and OD.

megabork · Post by **megabork** » November 4, 2007, 11:09 pm

428 in her and let it rumble,, your allready going to be putting a ton of money in it i would just start the complete process right off the bat, you dont want to have to do it twice (been there)plus those z blocks are wierd,, btw why are you painting the interior before all the rest ?

blackagatha · Post by **blackagatha** » November 5, 2007, 12:49 am

megabork wrote:428 in her and let it rumble,, your allready going to be putting a ton of money in it i would just start the complete process right off the bat, you dont want to have to do it twice (been there)

haha you got it right, bork... I dumped over $3000 into my 390, regret not going all the way. Some day, I will likely go with forged heavy comp pistons, Hbeams, a real cam, solid valvetrain, and heavy duty valve springs. Already ran into trouble with the damned stock valvetrain. And I want more power out of her!!!

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » November 5, 2007, 8:57 am

Gritsngumbo wrote:Hmmm! Thanks guys. I hadn't thought of the 302. I like that option. In a similar vein, I've actually found a 289 with a 4 speed top loader in a neighboring state. How would that work? Thought it was a little pricey $950 for both but in looking around it might not be too bad considering??

That is not a bad price if the motor is in GOOD shape. But, a toploader doesn't get you any Overdrive. 289 will hustle a slick right along.

along the lines of money, 2000-2500 dollars will get you a decent warmed up (not stock) smallblock, you'd be lucky to get a stock rebuild out of an FE or a Y block for that. If you ARE gonna rebuild a 302, get one with a roller cam '84 up, they will perform better in the future than flat tappet cammed motors, since the oil technology has changed now and is starting to wear out flat tappet cams. This situation will only get worse.

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » November 5, 2007, 9:06 am

megabork wrote: btw why are you painting the interior before all the rest ?

a. Because it looked like crap and looked especially bad since the exterior shows up so good.
b. Got tired of everyone asking when I was going to do something about the interior.
c. Had to start somewhere (it runs and drives, just not up to my wants and desires).

To quote Red Fox: "Beauty is skin deep, but ugly goes straight to the bone".

Quite frankly didn't realize that I would wind up spending so much on the "extras", but my paint/body guy is a perfectionist and thinks you may as well do it right the first time (He's correct). The cab's going to be like new when finished.

Post by **Greg D** » November 5, 2007, 9:18 am

I would say the "extras" are worth it, you have a nice truck. BTW JC is right with the 302 choice. Roller cam is the way to go, lot more torque than a flat tappet 5.0 & the same fuel mileage. He's close on the roller cam engine years, 85 (but only 5 speed Stangs) thru 94. Any 86-94 5.0 Stang came with the roller engine, didn't have to be a GT. They are pretty plentiful in rebuildable condition or drop in. I found 2 locally both under $300 in less than a week.

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » November 5, 2007, 12:49 pm

Greg D wrote:I would say the "extras" are worth it, you have a nice truck. BTW JC is right with the 302 choice. Roller cam is the way to go, lot more torque than a flat tappet 5.0 & the same fuel mileage. He's close on the roller cam engine years, 85 (but only 5 speed Stangs) thru 94. Any 86-94 5.0 Stang came with the roller engine, didn't have to be a GT. They are pretty plentiful in rebuildable condition or drop in. I found 2 locally both under $300 in less than a week.

Greg: I was trying to follow your engine choices and final selection and it made my head spin. :-). You seem to have more of a selection of used vehicles that I'm finding here. Maybe I just need to look in different places. We don't even have a Craigslist here, the closest one is in Shreveport (2 hours away) and the local paper's classified section is crap (and expensive).

So what you guys are saying is that I can pickup a 302 out of an 85 to 94 Mustang (hopefully with a 5 speed) and that would work. I want to stay with carbs, if I find one with EFI can I replace the intake manifold?

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » November 5, 2007, 12:58 pm

basically you want a 86-94 roller 302, probably won't find one with a 5 speed. Yes you can replace the FI intake with a carb intake, you have to be careful to find one with a distributor tho, and not full electronic ignition and no dizzy. They can be retrofitted, but easier if you dont have that.

Engine Swap - Your thoughts and opinions please

Engine Swap - Your thoughts and opinions please

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