If I wanted to swap in a 302 will it fit with this setup?

Phil · Post by **Phil** » December 7, 2007, 3:23 am

PO fabbed wedge shape frame horns and mounted what look to me like 302 Torino frame stands. The engine has what looks to me to be 68 T bird or maybe 73 Lincoln Mk 1V block plates.

I'm pretty sure the right thing to do is to buy a 302 swap Xmember.
Is there a vendor?

What I really want to do is to just throw on some 68 Fairlane block plates on the 87 5.0 mill I have and stab it in. Unfortunatly I have no idea what that will do as far as driveline geometry. Is there an easy way to measure it all out VS actually swapping engines and seeing what happens?

oldtrucks · Post by **oldtrucks** » December 7, 2007, 3:47 am

heavyhauler

When I swaped in a 302 in the 61 uni I did, I fabbed the engine mounts to resemble the mount towers on the 67 to 79 trucks. Ford mounted their engines and trans about 2 "two" inches over to the passenger side. the engine and trans front to rear angle is about 3 degrees or untill the carb mount surface is level at ride height. If I were to do the same swap today I would find a set of mount towers from the 67 to 79 F 150 and adapt them to the slick frame rails. There is plenty of room in the engine bay for this swap.
The only real issue I ran into was maintaining a reasonable gap to the fire wall weld flange. I maintained about 3/4 inch between the engine and the flange and wound up with a real nice install. I also used an electric fan to eliminate any fan shroud alignment problems. I used a correct stock radiator. They can be ordered with either the front or rear mounting flange. Either one will do very well.
I do not have my pictures handy or I would post them too. If you or anyone would like to see them I will dig them out and post them later.

With the front clip off this isn't to big of a job but requires some welding and measurements but nothing very technical. Most of it being tape measure and a small level

Phil · Post by **Phil** » December 7, 2007, 5:00 am

Thanks Mike, had to step away for a few...
That is some good info. I think I better decide what to do with the 429 in mine now. Its not running well at 3K rpms or so and i have to decide if I want to spend to fix a problem I suspect or if i just do the 302 swap in an effort to get fuel costs down.

I really would hate to do a swap that I can't drop the mill in w/o pulling the front clip. Is yours able to do that? I tend to pull me engines a a lot :lol:

Id like to see any pix you have. You can email them to me if you like
pmpaskven@yahoo. com

As for the engine offset and correct pinion angles etc I suspect the PO was really unconcerned about that stuff. Maybe Ill get a day above 30 and start reasearching what I actually have to work with. Thanks!!

Post by **Greg D** » December 7, 2007, 8:17 am

Heavy, I'll be using these when I do mine.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

Garbz · Post by **Garbz** » December 7, 2007, 10:22 am

Greg

Do not use those.

They do in fact twist the frame and also will bend and break off the engine. Been there done that and replaced them.

Use a simple crossmember from speedway. the crossmember will reinforce the frame enough to allow the old bell crossmember to be removed to fit a C6.

Garbz

Garbz · Post by **Garbz** » December 7, 2007, 10:28 am

Heavy

Measure the pinion angle of the rear axle. This will determing the angle the engine is required ot be at.

crankshaft center line and the pinion centerline should be on the same plane. Parrell to each other.

Garbz

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » December 7, 2007, 10:48 am

Garbz wrote:Greg

Do not use those.

They do in fact twist the frame and also will bend and break off the engine. Been there done that and replaced them.

Use a simple crossmember from speedway. the crossmember will reinforce the frame enough to allow the old bell crossmember to be removed to fit a C6.

Garbz

Dave. I have those, in the Merc. If I am walking to SS3, now you know why.

oldtrucks · Post by **oldtrucks** » December 7, 2007, 2:30 pm

heavyhauler

I failed to mention that I used a small block C6 tranny with this install. There is enough room around the cross member for this so it doesn't have to be removed otherwise I would have had to box the frame. This cross member is why I had a little trouble with the cab to engine clearance. I really didn't want to remove this cross member so I took some extra time to avoid doing it and it payed off.

This is a show truck too so I did things I might not have done if I was doing it for myself. It was a complete frame off resto mod.

The swap can be done without removing the front clip but no more than is required to remove it it makes the job much easier. I remove mine all in one piece. If I know I am going to need to remove it more than once I will make up a wiring plug near the firewall then all I have to do is seperate the wiring at the plug, remove a few bolts and the alt/gen wiring and pull the clip in one piece

Garbz · Post by **Garbz** » December 7, 2007, 3:12 pm

I use a front crossmember "BBG" and transmission crossmember "BBG" in my 64 to hold up the 472 and C6. no issues no problems. AND my transmission will unbolt and come out under the truck on a lift or on ramps.

The Bell crossmember is just that a crossmember to locate the bell along with a front mount to provide a stable mount for the 223 or 282 engine. There is a reason all 65 up automatic equipped trucks with twin I beams had the intermediate crossmember bolted in. So the COM C4 or C6 could be removed without pulling the engine/trans as a combo.

It is not necessary to be in there or be boxed. when adding a new transverse crossmember and transmission mount.

All it does is now is makes you pull the entire dirve train to do transmission service on an automatic. A C6 will not be removable and then slide out behing. Makes a Torque converter change or a flywheel change a MAJOR project. Nothing like a fresh paint and pulling the entire drive train out the front to ruin your day. Its just another thing to route the exhaust and other things around.

John....you do not count with those mounts as you have a aerostar front CROSSMEMBER! your frame is braced and prevented from deflection, all you are using them for is engine location....In that they will work fine. Its when there just hanging in the breeze tweaking on the frame rail with the weight of the engine it bends the tabs at the engine and fractures them with fatigue.

If you are going to box the frame then you have welding skills and should have just installed a IFS....

Garbz

Phil · Post by **Phil** » December 7, 2007, 6:55 pm

your gonna crap at this:

Mounts

Trans X member

Can you say mystery pinion angle?

I still love this truck regardless.
It'll all get fixed eventually

Post by **Greg D** » December 7, 2007, 7:36 pm

Garbz, I wondered about that too when I was deciding what swap mount to use, My original plan was to go with the cross member for the reason you stated. It was the fact that JC & others used them I had picked them. Speedway is closer to Bellevue than Summit anyway. I'll go buy the cross member from Speedy Bill.

Phil · Post by **Phil** » December 7, 2007, 7:59 pm

your gonna crap at this:

Mounts

Trans X member

Can you say mystery pinion angle?

I still love this truck regardless.
It'll all get fixed eventually

oldtrucks · Post by **oldtrucks** » December 7, 2007, 8:11 pm

Hope this passes muster, best I could do at the time. Would do some things different next time like remove the cross member or at least make it removable, "Garbz" point well taken. Why didn't I think of that applies here.
This is a small block install so didn't have to face the issues involved with a big block. Probably will next time as I am thinking of putting my 429 in the 62 Uni I am driving now. Might just swap in a later model frame that I have laying around would solve a lot of problems.

http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc195/3Oldtrucks/

Garbz · Post by **Garbz** » December 8, 2007, 1:31 am

Mike

Are you using a C4 or AOD? If so it will just barely slip past the floor and the crossmember. A small block C6 will not come out.

Greg, JC is ok with those type as he has a crossmember in place. That prevents the flexion caused by the engine trying to defy gravity.

Garbz

Garbz · Post by **Garbz** » December 8, 2007, 1:32 am

Mike

Are you using a C4 or AOD? If so it will just barely slip past the floor and the crossmember. A small block C6 will not come out.

Greg, JC is ok with those type as he has a crossmember in place. That prevents the flexion caused by the engine trying to defy gravity.

Garbz

Garbz · Post by **Garbz** » December 8, 2007, 1:43 am

Heavy

Those mounts are just about the same as the ones in the XL....LOL

those and no transmission bell crossmember. In fact it was not cut out by DST just deleted on the line as the frame was built.

Garbz

oldtrucks · Post by **oldtrucks** » December 8, 2007, 2:55 am

Garbz

Wish I had known of this site when I was doing the 61. I hope the person that won the truck never has to pull the tranny. Problem is I know the guy he owns the parts store here in Pinehurst and he helped put the truck together. I might someday be in big trouble. The tranny is a C6. Did you look at the pictures??

shawns fords · Post by **shawns fords** » December 8, 2007, 12:09 pm

Greg D wrote:Heavy, I'll be using these when I do mine.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

thats what I have behind my 460. not a single problem with them, of course I did weld them onto the frame as well as bolt them up. I have done some pretty stout launches and burnouts with them and they havent caused me a single problem. I dont know why anyone else would UNLESS they cut out the trans crossmember (which doesnt need to be done) and weaken the frame oh well to each his own I guess. I will be drag racing mine all next season once a month in club clash friday night street series also, if it makes it through that then it will make it through anything :lol:

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » December 8, 2007, 12:22 pm

MIne are also placed on the inside of the frame boxing/gussets that are there to drop the Aerostar cross member 1" into my frame. so I could modify them to offfset the engine properly, Transdapt designed them to center the engine.

there is also this one for bigger engines
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

and I believe Dennis Carpenter and others sell one for the Windsor like that.

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » December 8, 2007, 1:14 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote: there is also this one for bigger engines
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku

and I believe Dennis Carpenter and others sell one for the Windsor like that.

I sure do like the looks of the crossmember type over the others. The only one I could find on the Dennis Carpenter site is a Universal type - #TD-4819