several possibilities for squeezing more gas mileage

blackagatha · Post by **blackagatha** » February 7, 2008, 11:20 pm

SO, What do you think of these ideas

I've been looking at all sorts of scammy looking things to put on your car to make MPGs better, some of them seem to be at least reasonable... I don't feel as if I am a TOTAL GULLIBLE RETARD....

at this point I am willing to try just about any/all of this.

Here are some of the ideas I saw.

The most interesting was to make hydrogen/oxygen bubble bottles to feed into the PCV line. I definitely think I will try this.

Most foolproof, seems to be a fuel warmer tube to strap to the radiator hose. I just thought, maybe a chunk of fuel line coiled around it... OH MAN, It just hit me, if the ATF line wasn't going thru the bottom of the radiator.... That would be an ideal way to route the gas.....

A strong solvent (such as acetone or xylol) in the gas naturally sounds like a bad idea, but a big part of me is tempted to try it. At 2-3 ounces per 10 gallons, as suggested, it really doesn't seem like it should be strong enough to hurt anything. Mostly they say the acetone should counteract the crappy effects of the Ethanol that is added to the gas, and effectively raise the octane by a few numbers, so theoretically, I could give it a bit more advance....

OH YEAH, before I do any of this I intend to get a calibration kit for my carter (edelbrock), and get it leaned out substantially. It's been quite too rich.

blackagatha · Post by **blackagatha** » February 8, 2008, 12:03 am

OOOHHOO HOO!!!

I think I may have just found the DEFINITIVE SOLUTION

Some dude made a thing he calls a "Fogerator", and posted an in-depth essay about it, for his patent... I don't care about patents. There are no pictures, but the description is so in depth (AND SO SIMPLE) that I'm gonna have to try it.

Basically, it is a fat tube, to which your fuel pump feeds the gas. Inside the "main tube" is a "Perforated Straw", a brass or aluminum tube with a bunch of 1/64" holes drilled in it. After the straw is an electric fuel pump that must make 10-12 pounds (minimum) of vacuum on the straw.

All this makes a DENSE WHITE FOG, supposedly similar to cigarette smoke. With this, it is supposedly possible to remove the floats from the carburetor, as there is no longer any liquid in the carb. (O WAIT, that wouldn't make sense, he said if the fogger failed, it could suck gas normally due to checkvalves, I would probably leave the floats in there)

Anyway, he says that if done properly, the fog is so dense that you don't have to alter the mixture adjustments, and makes an incredible power gain, burns easier, revs up faster, and his testbed engine, a C#@^y 427, supposedly went from 9mpg to 24mpg.

He also believes that the engine wear is greatly reduced, on the logic that we already accept, the liquid gas is extremely bad for the rings, and seeps into the crankcase. This issue is supposedly totally non-existent with the fogerator.

For anybody that wants to do some intensive reading (very interesting) look at this website.

http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/fogerator.htm

grabber64 · Post by **grabber64** » February 8, 2008, 9:46 am

hey this really sounds like something that could really be done. is there some pics that follow this? you had a link posted but does that link have more to it so we can see it done. jeremy

36truck · Post by **36truck** » February 8, 2008, 9:55 am

If you all of them you will get 100 mpg. So go for it. :shock:

My65 · Post by **My65** » February 8, 2008, 10:40 am

I re-routed the smog pump on my 92 Windsor. It now sucks cold air from in front of the rad and pushes it straight into the carb. I don't know what that is in terms of boost Lbs, but with 2 engines and trannies in the box, I still get @ 20 MPG!! I figure that if nothing else, my engine isn't having to 'suck' the air in, it should be 'free breathing' at the very least...

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » February 8, 2008, 12:05 pm

i have been running the 195 thermostat for years. i dont think it has any effect on the mpg but the heat is nice and toasty.

blackagatha · Post by **blackagatha** » February 8, 2008, 3:49 pm

sadly, I haven't found any pictures of said Fogerator. I think I will likely be able create a similar device based on his description. I Will post all sorts of pics. Especially if it works...

Garbz · Post by **Garbz** » February 8, 2008, 4:11 pm

Just warn us here in the south of you. It sounds like a black hole creator and i would like to run to sedona to get aboard the last flight off this rock before being eaten.

Garbz

My65 · Post by **My65** » February 8, 2008, 4:29 pm

65TremecGT · Post by **65TremecGT** » February 8, 2008, 5:26 pm

I dont think warming the fuel is going to be a good idea, doesnt cool air charge make a more powerful combustion? I think your best bet would be a small six, efi exaust manifolds, 5 spd tranny and cruise!

The Big M · Post by **The Big M** » February 8, 2008, 6:10 pm

How do you richen or lean out the mixture with this Fogerator? Sounds like snake oil to me. Or an offshoot of throttle-body injection. Maybe even inspired by a propane conversion.

Manifold heat is beneficial on log intakes, such as those used in inline sixes. The 223, for example, uses exhaust heat to warm the manifold and reduce puddling of the fuel as it travels the relatively long distance from the single one-barrel to the ports. The same effect can be achieved by a water-heated spacer.

If you look at a sequential EFI 5.0, for example, you'll notice there is a water-heated spacer between the throttle body and intake manifold. So a little bit of heat is beneficial, while too much can cost efficiency. Moot point, I imagine, since the intake on your 390 is likely warm enough.

Which brings us to thermostats. A 190 degree thermostat may increase efficiency, or it may not. I expect it depends on the engine. And the ambient temp.

Ethanol should increase the octane, not decrease it. The trade-off is that ethanol contains less energy than gasoline.

Acetone breaks down plastic parts (fuel tank floats, for example). I'm not convinced it offers anything other than a negligible gain.

If you want mileage, stick to the basics. Try tuning for mileage, adding an overdrive, maintaining tire pressure, and selecting a proper axle ratio. It will be more effective than any high-mileage voodoo. Oh yeah, reduce idling and KEEP YOUR FOOT OUT OF IT!

Other than that, you could try retrofitting an EFI system of some sort. Or an electric fan to reduce the load on the engine (or even just a thermostatically-controlled clutch fan, like on passenger-car EFI 5.0's), underdrive pulleys, etc.

I expect most things of these things will only yield small incremental gains, and there will be tradeoffs.

65TremecGT · Post by **65TremecGT** » February 8, 2008, 7:10 pm

What would be really cool for a economizer slick (if there could be such a thing!) would be to obtain one of those Austrailian cross flow headed inline six efi motors, although you would likely spend way more in the conversion, it sure would be cool!

61ford · Post by **61ford** » February 8, 2008, 7:15 pm

id look into hydrogen injection ive looked at it some and doesnt seem to hard prolly will atleast try to get it to work on mine,but with your fe engine youll never gonna get decent gas mileage if youre looking for power and decent mileage id swap in a sbf with 4spped od or 5 and possible fuel inject it

Post by **Greg D** » February 9, 2008, 4:12 pm

Simple, real world, practical plan for better MPG;
First forget the flux capacitor, atomic powered hairdryer blower, etc. then install an overdrive transmission. ZF out of a bigger Ford or someone here did a NV4500 (although I thought the price of a used NV was a little high). Requires minimal fabrication and just plain works.

blackagatha · Post by **blackagatha** » February 9, 2008, 4:50 pm

yeah, I would really like to have an EFI, 5 speed trans, electric fan, etc. Fact is, It's terrible expensive, and I dont got the cash for it.

If any of this crap works, it would be incredible, and all told cost me less than $40, most likely.

The most expensive part would likely be an EGT guage to make sure I don't have a meltdown. I know secondhand from my brother that an extreme lean condition will DESTROY an engine... The right side of his carb partially plugged up, and ROASTED half of his 302.

Post by **Greg D** » February 9, 2008, 6:49 pm

You might be able to find a ZF at the pic & pull for under $100.

Uncle Skip · Post by **Uncle Skip** » February 9, 2008, 7:30 pm

Eliminate all government involvement with anything remotely associated with automobiles, fuel formulation, or emissions and you'd start getting cheaper gas and better fuel economy.
Hell, if the government didn't take 70+ cents a gallon off the top, your gas would be costing about 2 bucks.
I have a plan.
First, we kill all the lawyers............. er ah, no, wait, I think that was Act 1 of Henry the 8th.
I'm going to unhook the 2 end carburetors and put in a 2:70 open chunk when I head to Slick Stock. We'll see how that works out :wink:

U@ss

banjopicker66 · Post by **banjopicker66** » February 9, 2008, 8:31 pm

In late '79 up in the Tacoma, WA area, as gas prices were doubling, a fellow developed a means of getting 50 MPG out of a '72 or so Toronado, or so he claimed. His claims were published in the paper, but he sold the actual diagrams separately.
A friend of mine bought the plans, and asked me to install it on his '74 Dodge Dart with a 318. For labor, he gave me the money to buy 2 sets. I tried to talk him out of it, but no luck, so I thought it would be fun to try it anyway - it was only a little labor.

It involved a pressure regulator in front of a heater, and a needle valve behind the heater. The fuel was to flow through a coiled copper tube bathed by engine coolant, inside a sealed larger tube. (Reminded me of a condenser for white lightnin'.) You tapped into the heater hoses to get the coolant to flow through the outer tube. The outer tube was supposed to be plastic or some other non-conductor to ensure the coolant heated the fuel sufficiently, and didn't lose too much heat through a metal jacket - like metal water pipe. I used plastic water pipe, per the guy's instructions.

The setup was a pressure regulator set to 4 lbs just before the heater, and the needle valve after the heater, and within 1 inch of the carburetor.

In addition, there was a long rod was affixed to the needle valve that ran through the firewall. You controlled the fuel flow to the carb via the needle valve, and you tinkered with it as you drove, opening or closing the valve with the long rod, based on engine performance.

The needle valve was supposed to reduce the fuel "wasted" by the carb, and the heater was suppose to improve fuel burning efficiency.

It either worked terrible and needed constant attention, or it didn't work at all. In any case, it reduced economy and performance no matter what.
When people complained it didn't work, his response invariably was "You didn't follow the directions correctly by using a non-metal jacketed heater."

It all boils down to the amount of energy necessary to move the vehicle at a given speed with a given resistance - there is only so much energy in a gallon (or litre!) of gas, and you cannot change the physics behind it all.

needmoretime · Post by **needmoretime** » February 9, 2008, 9:01 pm

Figure out where your engine makes the most torque by RPM with a local dyno which may cost 75-100 bucks. Once you know this information you can change the gear so you will run in the most efficient rpm range. Make sure your engine is properly tuned, tires have enough air and so on. No gimmick in the world will overcome this as Banjo said above. Sounds like a lot of work but is nessasary to achieve optimum results.

:steering:

grabber64 · Post by **grabber64** » February 10, 2008, 12:50 am

i had played around with a 66 mustang convertible for gas milage. it was a 6 cylinder car and the motor went to shiY and it was my driver other than this piece of shiy 79 f100. really it was bad. the only thing i had to drop in at the time was a 289 so i put it in and a 5 speed. that set up was great. i got 300 miles out of a tank of gas and it wasn't much different than my 6 banger. 66 mustangs are 16 gallon tanks also and this is city driving too. i never liked no having being able to find an original console plate for a 4 speed to match up to my console so i decided to go with the aod trans to get my interior to look complete again. well, after all the waste of money all i got out of the aod was 200 miles to the tank of gas in town or highway on the same engine and rearend gears. that is crap. i had put 4 wheel disc, power windows, power locks, keyless entry, power steering,...... I was done messing with it after that. i got rid of it and traded for a loaded up from factory 70 mach 1 351.

there is only so much we are going to get from these things. some day we might no be able to drive these things.

several possibilities for squeezing more gas mileage

is this a good idea? Or incredibly BAD idea?

several possibilities for squeezing more gas mileage