Fish Eyes

[Blackwaterforge]

Painted doors and front fenders Tuesday evening. All now have fish eyes.
Not sure what I did wrong. Have not had this problem on any of the other parts.

[slick4x4]

im no pro painter... to say the least
but i have painted probabaly a dozen vehicles
never had the fisheye problem yet
some guys tell me its a temp problem... but my guess its a prep problem
probably a chemical (oily) substance on the object your painting

[36truck]

Most likely some sort of contaminate. Oil. silicone are two big issues. Did you wax anything in the garage recently?

[stronger66ratfink]

A COMBINATION OF THINGS
first using the wrong temp reducer
but most likely if you wiped the surface down with a tac cloth (which I hate)
or used a Naptha type cleaner on the surface before spraying it will leave a oil film on the surface,
light sand the problem area with 400 wet, use squirt bottle with water and lit soap mixture, soap lets the paper slide easier, use clean dry shop cloths, the blue ones from auto store and best results for me has been a hand that's been cleaned in lacquer thinner, dry of course but air and hand to check for imperfections works
spray a light coat first then come back with a second coat, let flash and add a another light 3rd coat, stand clear and hope for no runs
then light up your cigar and grab another beer, just wish they would make a mask with a hole in it so I can keep the cigar

[loosrp]

but most likely if you wiped the surface down with a tac cloth (which I hate)

I don't understand??? Whats wrong with a tack cloth???? They are used before paint...Thats what they are for!!

Blackwaterforge, Automotive paint shops carry a product called wax and grease remover, follow the manufacturers instructions and this will take care of fisheye's 9 times out of 10.
As for what you have already sprayed, it needs to be taken down to get rid of the contamination you have.
I always wipe down everything everytime I do anything.. paint, primer, even before I start sanding on an old finish.

[36truck]

There is a product call FISHEYE remover. But if you use it once you have to use it every time you paint the same panel.

[johnzmu]

I don't understand??? Whats wrong with a tack cloth???? They are used before paint...Thats what they are for!!

Tack rags use a heavy varnish to give them their stickyness. So if you are using them and rub to hard, you can transfer some of the stickiness to the surface to be painted, and therefore cause fisheyes.

[loosrp]

I'm sorry but I've never had a tack cloth cause fisheye.

[cavinandpavin]

if you use one correctly you wont run into that, a tack rag is to be lightly drug across the surface, not rubbed in.
it is almost a 100% chance that the culprit is silicone, it is in everything, wd-40 to tire shine and lots of other stuff . pop quiz. any one know what is in fish eye elminator..... silicone, go figure.

[jammck66]

I worked in bodyshops all through high school and afterwords for a bit. there are MANY methods of prepping.. ie: wet sanding vs dry, 400 finish vs. 500. etc etc etc. but all shops use some kind of prep solution prior to sanding and priming and painting. for dupont it is called "wash and wipe" you just get a pressurized spray bottle and spray it on and wipe it dry. ( it will flash off quickly, so work fast) then a tack cloth is used. LIGHTLY. just to pick up any tiny little pieces of dust or lint, or whatever. you can use the tack cloth each prior to spraying each coat if you have let it flash properly. always use the correct temp. reducer also. as well as the correct activator if using clearcoat. professional paint products are no doubt expensive, but you will be glad to pay extra to prevent having to do the work twice. i have painted a black 88 chev with red pearl, a red 2004 Honda CBR 600RR, a blue 92 mustang, a silver/ blue pearl ford (my lil bro's 85) and a green 94 john deere acerage tractor. all except the CBR came out FAIRLY flawless.( as much can be expected for a garage job) and all were done using the same 500 grit-wash n wipe-tack cloth method.
you can find an amazing amount of professional paint knowledge on google as well. some pros sell DIY DVD's most likely worth the 40 bucks. IMHO

[Greg D]

DA can be the culprit too - sort of. Air tools get oiled so they spray oil, if you don't get it all cleaned up you can get fisheyes. Some of the oil spots can be too small to see but definitely large enough to contaminate the paint.

[Anthony]

I use tack rags too and I fisheyed my dash twice.... never thought of the rag being the culprit but I always do things too hard and too tight, so, I figure that was probably my problem too...

[64 f100]

Nothing has been said about water in the compressor and filters for water and other contiminants. I've used tack cloths and I allways wet sand with dish soap in the water. Not much just enough to help keep the pores open in the sand paper, Seldom if ever had fisheye problem. Anyway, if useing a small compressor water buildup and some oil buildup could very well be your problem. When using a smal compressor for any air tool for any length of time, you will create a lot of heat causing water and or oil to end up in the tank. Just before painting I let my compressor cool down, drain the tank , then blow out the hose, buy removing the tail end fitting, once the tank has been hooked up again. I also use a double filter system, one above the other. Mine is home made with some water traps I bought years ago at a swap meet, these also have drain cocks on the bottom and I always drain these before and after use. These also have filters which will help remove any oil. One word of caution on the dish soap. Use only the cheapest grade with no additives. Why not use other type soaps? Dish soap is made to leave little to know residue. And as some have said a tack cloth is just that , and only meant for taking off the little fuzzies and other light residue. Water and a clean cloth first and then a tack cloth.

Rich

[snopek]

fish eyes are caused by containments in the air. silcion and oil products cause this. things like tire shine, armerall, most waxes you buy at auto zone, oil, grease, stuff like that. you can help pervent them by wipeing the panels that you are painting with soap and water then wax and grease remover before you paint. you can buy it at a local auto paint stoor. i paint cars for a liveing so i know. hope that helps.

[crewzinforabrewzin]

spent several years spraying industrial and automotive, most of what you need to watch out for has been mentioned already in this thread, armerall, wd-40, brake fluid, are all things that will get on a vehicle special an older one. these can realy mess things up for ya, brake fluid for example is the worse, the old 2dot and 1dot(can you still buy them?)will go derectly in the metal and contaminate it and bout the only way you will know its there is when you paint, it can be almost impossable to get it off to. the last 10-15 years lots of products have came out on the market now.you can get it off but you gotta get it all. hard part is knowing when you got it. most people dont know this but tack clothes need to be pulled apart, so that it is one big piece and not folded and stuck together, then you wad it up into a ball leaving it fluffy, much like the little fluffy doiley things your wife uses to bathe with. then it has all the folds and crevices to collect dust (kinda like wadding toilet paper) lightly wipe with little pressure dont wanna mash your rag so it gets stuck to its self. open it back up and shake it out after every few wipes. while a tack rag could possibly caused the fisheye but chances are it wasnt the rag but what was on it,people use there rags to long, just cause it still sticky doesnt mean its clean. they are sticky and dirt and stuff will collect on them and then be spread allover. as you think your cleaning your realy making it wosre. tack rags are cheap and using a contamanated rag will cost you more to fix, the cost of repairing fish eyes you can probally buy a 100 tack rags. make sure you dont got oil coming through your air lines even though you may not see it coming through theres a good chance it is in very fine amounts. if oil is in your air when you sand it blows out the exhaust onto metal and when you paint you will be spraying that oil on with the paint. du pont has fish eye stuff you put in the paint when you mix it up, dont use alot, its been a while but i wanna say we use to use like2 cap fulls per 1 gallon. if my memory is correct you cant use the dupont fisheye reducer in diffrent brands of paint, i worked in a paint booth for 3 years then another 5 in a booth for another company, and it wasnt till like 5 years after that i spent another year in another booth wich was for finishing wood, and thats when i was tought the proper way to use tack cloths, at first i thought the guy was kiddin me.one other thing paints are specialy formulated to use certain reducers and catalysts only use the products that are ment for your particular paint. using ppg reducer in dupont paint may cause problems. i had a few cans of dupont centari paint gave them to a buddy he used sherwin williams catalyst in it and it caused the paint to dry dull rather then shiny, and it took a long time for the paint to dry

[Blackwaterforge]

Thank You for your replies!
Re-sanded doors and fenders. Added fish eye eliminator to paint. Repainted Saturday. No fish eyes!

Is there anything I can pour into the paint to prevent runs,drips and sags?
Truck will be a daily driver and shop truck so it dosen't have to be perfect but I don't want it to look like I painted it with a chicken or a pine top!

[64 f100]

Runs are generally from aplying too much paint too fast. Let it tack up before loading the metal. Runs can be dealt with after the fact but are a pain. I usually scape mine with a razor blade, scrape not shave, although that can be done to start with if deep enough. There are mini blocks you can buy for use when sanding, and cutters. The new paints are a pain for me, as these do not flow correctly in my opinion, unless you put way more thinner in , than your supposed to, in the paint. This will lead to other problems. The quality of paint you use is also a variable. Regualr enamel of the rustoleum quality , runs easily. When you buy paint, always read any material you can get on that particular brand. then, with that knowledge play with what you have before cutting loose on on your truck. A little advice on using a razorblade, don't use double edged (ouch), bend the blade on the ends soe you are less likely to gouge your paint , scrap with the blade slanted slightly backwards so the sharp bent up edges stay away from the paint. Tim consuming teious process, that doesn't always come out well. Takes time and patience.

Rich

Rich

[don morris II]

when you run out of bait for fishing fish eyes work good

[snopek]

"fish eye elimanator" has silicone in it. its only ment for the clear coat too. i refuse to use it expeshely in a body shop setting. use it one time in a booth and you will contaminate your booth and gun for months because your pretty much spraying silicone in the air. another funny thing fish eyes come from is gel deodrtent believe it or not even with long selves on you can get them.

[Hawkrod]

"fish eye elimanator" has silicone in it. its only ment for the clear coat too. i refuse to use it expeshely in a body shop setting. use it one time in a booth and you will contaminate your booth and gun for months because your pretty much spraying silicone in the air. another funny thing fish eyes come from is gel deodrtent believe it or not even with long selves on you can get them.

Fish eye eliminator was not meant just for clear coat, in fact, it existed long before any of us ever heard of clear coat. I was using fish eye eliminator in the 70's and I know my dad used it long before that. I never used it on a whole car but I painted components for a living and it can help give an ultrasmooth finish on parts that can't be color sanded due to the shape. Hawkrod