Replacing a 292 with a 352

Flatwater · Post by **Flatwater** » March 12, 2011, 9:04 am

I've got a lead on a 352 that came out of a '65 F-250. I guy I know has been working on this pickup off and on since college. Money wasn't much of an issue for him when he took the motor to a machine shop. His only instructions were "Make it run, and make it run right." He has receipts for over $3200 on the rebuild/upgrade. Didn't get too carried away, .010 over, Mallory ignition, headers, new heads, etc. It's still in the pickup and I can hear it run. Whole shootin' match for $500.

What sort of issues will I run into if I try to drop this motor into my '61 Uni SB? It currently has a 292 and a 4-speed.

Johnny Canuck · Post by **Johnny Canuck** » March 12, 2011, 9:13 am

The 1965-66s that had the FE in a pickup had the more modern side mount motor mounts and a cross member for a tranny mount. To use the setup you currently have for the Y block, they had adapters stock on the bigger trucks from F350 up in 1965, that still used the older style setup.

In other words, the front loop mount and the transmission mount that you need for the FE were made by ford for the bigger trucks. Iceman has done the reverse of this before, installed a Y where an FE used to be. Perhaps he will chime in.

banjopicker66 · Post by **banjopicker66** » March 12, 2011, 9:34 am

You will have so many issues it isn't funny, and really isn't worth it unless you are a glutton for punishment. Your best bet is to rebuilt the 292, as it will be much easier and cheaper in the long run, or get a '65 or '66 to put the 352 into.

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » March 12, 2011, 10:13 am

On behalf of "Y-blockers" every where i say, DON'T DO IT! I don't care how easy or difficult the swap is...IMO, it's just WRONG!
Sounds like a great deal on the FE, take Banjo Picker's advice and find a 65 or 66 to put it in or sell or trade the FE for Y-block parts or machine work.

charliemccraney · Post by **charliemccraney** » March 12, 2011, 10:56 am

I'm a Y supporter, it's no secret, but $500 for a documented build of a 352 is not something that should be passed up. A stock 352 will have what, about 100 ft-lbs more than the 292 from the factory. With the mods, this particular 352 is likely stronger yet. I think the necessary work to fit it vs building the 292 will about balance out and you just aren't going to get the same torque out of the 292 without much more money. For me, it'd be no question, turbo 292, but this proposed swap is actually a step in the right direction.
If you make this swap, make sure the Y goes to a good home. Don't just leave it out in the weather or scrap it.

HiBoy63 · Post by **HiBoy63** » March 12, 2011, 11:08 am

I agree parts needed to make the changeover to a 352 using stock motor mounts and trans may be pretty hard to come up with now. Picked all mine up 15 or so years ago you could still go to ford and get them over the counter. What ford didnt have was easy to get at the local wrecking yard. You may have to wait a long time to come up with the parts vs rebuilding the 292. If I didnt have all the parts Id be putting the 292 back in my 63 4x4.

markzieglerinsd · Post by **markzieglerinsd** » March 12, 2011, 11:10 am

I would forget about the 352. They are not very good on gas and transmission choices are limited. I would go to a salvage yard and get a small block (302 or 351) from anything from a mustang, crown victoria, or pickup and an aod or E4od transmission from said engine. The engine will cost a lot less to overhaul in the future and the transmission will make the pickup easier on gas.

Good luck with your decision

Mark

charliemccraney · Post by **charliemccraney** » March 12, 2011, 11:24 am

Unless it's injected, the 302 will be a step in the wrong direction. It produces less torque. I have yet to hear of a 302 installed in one of our trucks that gets better mileage than my 292, unless it is one of the newer injected ones. It might provide better mileage than the 352 but the 352 will have a whole lot more torque. Because the mentioned 352 has new heads, it very likely has more efficient, modern combustion chambers and ports and could very well get much better mileage. The 351 should be better than the 302 but given the mods to the 352, I wouldn't necessarily count on a 351 being more efficient than the 352.
Transmissions are limited but for someone considering a 292 vs 352, it is a non issue. A transmisson can be adapted.

Flatwater · Post by **Flatwater** » March 12, 2011, 11:58 am

A little more info...
The motor has a 4-speed attached to it. I could take it for another $50 or I can take the bell housing with the price of the motor. I don't know if my tranny and the other are the same, I imagine they should be darn close. I also have a 4-speed out of '73 Highboy sitting in the shop. That should have been behind an FE, right?

I dunno. I didn't want to pass on the motor if the swap would be relatively straight forward. My biggest issue is a place to work on things. If I had room to store the 352, I'd buy just because the price is right. Unfortunately, I don't have a place for it to sit around until the right parts came along. I'd hate to see something happen to it because it sat out in the weather.

As far as the 292 goes, I actually haven't had it running yet. When I dragged it in from the tree row, the motor was free, full of oil and antifreeze. I pulled the plugs, gave each cylinder a squirt of oil and turned it over. No spark. I put in new plugs, wires, rotor, cap, etc... and I've got the carb apart right now for a rebuild. Once it's back together, it might fire up. Then, I could look at doing a simple overhaul, if needed.

I'm not necessarily looking for a hot rod, just a running pickup would suit me right now

The little Y-Block looks kinda cute sitting in there and I have two more that were given to me, if I pull them. Right now, they're in old wheat trucks. Low milage units. Maybe that's the right path...

Thanks for the input, everyone. I've got more thinkin' to do on the mattern now...

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » March 12, 2011, 12:02 pm

the problem (or issue as it can be done) with the 352 or any fe being installed in a 61-64 is related only to the bell housing, timing cover , and the transmission itself.

the bell from a 65/66 f250 4x4 or f350 with 352 has the ears needed.
you can also find these on bigger trucks f500.600,700 and the busses.
it will however only accept the transmissions offered in those years as well as the early t-98 and the clark 5 speed.
the bell is deeper and therefore the input shaft on the trans is longer.

the timing cover on the fe/ft used in these is different as the front mount attaches to it.

the total length, back of block to center of front mount is 2" more on the 292 than the fe/ft. that is why it is easier to change from a fe/ft to a 292 in the 4x4 and f350 as you can move the front mounting crossmember forward the 2".

it is not impossible to do , just a lot of hunting of less common parts.

HiBoy63 · Post by **HiBoy63** » March 12, 2011, 12:52 pm

I agree with Ice alot of hunting for uncommon parts. Took me awhile to get mine all together and that was 15 yrs ago when the parts where easier to find. I recently picked up a 65 fe 4x4 I was going to use for parts that is the setup u need. I have since desided to keep it and restore it. I can take pics for you if you want. Also have the parts in garage if you would like to see side by side comparison of what you are looking at.

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » March 12, 2011, 2:39 pm

in one my 65 f350 parts truck, at some point the fe was changed out and whoever did it welded perches on the frame so a later engine could bolt in.
deviates from original but the 4 point mount is easy to work with and plenty strong.

ezernut9mm · Post by **ezernut9mm** » March 12, 2011, 8:43 pm

all these people are trippin'. the 352 fe is a great engine and after market mounts are readily available and fairly cheap. you can put almost any transmission behind one that you want to. i say go for it. especially a deal like that.

how much do you want for your 292?

hot_roder09 · Post by **hot_roder09** » March 12, 2011, 8:53 pm

check out dennis carpenter they have all kinds of motor mounts and crossmembers that will bolt in or weld in between the frame and they work damn good and are esay to do for me i would od the swap ther is no way you coul rebuild that 292 for what it would cost ot put that 352 in your truck. proably for a few hundred dollars and a few weeks time you could do the swap like i said dennis carpenter has a crossmember that will bolt onto the frame to hold the 352 and any transmission you want to put behind it

hot_roder09 · Post by **hot_roder09** » March 12, 2011, 9:04 pm

just looked it up and the mont is 115.00 dollar and it bolts directly to the frame and the engine will then sit in it, trans mounts are around the same price just got www.dennis-carpenter.com and look up the 58-66 truck mag and then type engine mount and it will bring it up

unibody madness · Post by **unibody madness** » March 13, 2011, 10:37 am

Do what you think is right, but if you have the y, and can get the extra motors, old wheat trucks perhaps had the steel cranks in them....
The cost of the rebuild tends to get smaller as the parts get sold off

I have driven both, and although the 352 has a lot more umph when stock, gas is headed past $4.00 a gallon.it the 352 is thirsty, Have not heard of a T-5 being mounted to one but who knows?

John

Gritsngumbo · Post by **Gritsngumbo** » March 13, 2011, 12:07 pm

There are several Y-block/T-5 installs on the site: 62galxie, charliemccraney are two of them) and several more pending (myself included).

Oops, just realized you were talking about a FE/T-5 install. Sorry.

Post by **Greg D** » March 13, 2011, 4:48 pm

You can use an aftermarket bell to mount a TKO or T-5 to an FE. There is an adapter to put an AOD behind FEs as well (#4).
I can't seem to find it but there is an adapter to put a T-5 behind an FE also - an FE does push the limits of the WC T-5 though (300 ft lbs torque).
A Dodge NV 4500 5 speed is a good option behind an FE. There are also adaptors to use a 700R4 behind one. Some would freak and talk about "steaming excrement" at the thought of that but a GM 700R4 is an easy to find, good solid overdrive automatic with excellent aftermarket support - that's just a fact.
Any OD tranny is going make a pretty big difference in fuel economy. Kind of depends on how much you drive the truck, how and where.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Ford-FE-3 ... ,8353.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Big-Bloc ... ccessories

http://www.keislerauto.com/vmchk/ford/f ... e_acc.html

http://www.transmissionadapters.com/Pricing.htm

62galxe · Post by **62galxe** » March 13, 2011, 4:59 pm

if you want a tough trans they make adapters to put the ZF5 5 speed behind a fe.

Post by **Greg D** » March 13, 2011, 5:15 pm

62galxe wrote:if you want a tough trans they make adapters to put the ZF5 5 speed behind a fe.

Good choice - I forgot that one.