what pitman arm for toyota box?

grabber64 · Post by **grabber64** » January 28, 2008, 12:04 am

I have been going through some past articles of toyota box conversions but with no luck on what everyone is using. is everyone using the toyota box's arm. it is only like 1.5 inches shorter and the other end mounts to the ford linkage just fine. the toyota pitman arm to toyota box can be placed in any postion so when you rotate the box to mount on the truck then you can center the arm on the box where ever you please. i don't see how this causes a problem and i would think this is what ford and shelby did to the mustang gt's to help out with the quick ratio steering box is a shorter pitman arm. i don't think it will make it easier to turn but you can pass a car a little easier with a shorter turn of the wheel.

any info you guys can give me would be great.

bertha66 · Post by **bertha66** » January 28, 2008, 12:12 pm

I used the Toyota pitman arm on my truck, but it is a 66 4x4 F100. With mine the the steering wheel on the old Ford box was 4 1/2 turns lock to lock and with the Toyota box it was 4 1/4 turns lock to lock. Overall turning radius is not as good as it was, I do more 3 point turns now, but I can not hardly drive wothout the power steering anymore.

grabber64 · Post by **grabber64** » January 28, 2008, 4:36 pm

does the turning radius on the wheel go all the way to the end where it bottoms out from side to side?

Post by **Greg D** » January 28, 2008, 8:34 pm

Some have cut both of the arms and welded them together using the Ford lower half and the Toy upper to get the length correct.

bertha66 · Post by **bertha66** » January 29, 2008, 11:10 am

I had to cut a notch in the frame for the arm to finish it's swing to one side. But as I said mine is a 4x4 and it mounts differant than a 2wd.

blackagatha · Post by **blackagatha** » January 29, 2008, 7:29 pm

NAW MAN!!! you got your logic backward.

The shorter arm will cause the steering to turn LESS per given rotation of the wheel. IE Less Snappy. Lock to lock turn counts is one thing, but that is only testing the limits of the toyota box. lock to lock of the toy box is making less stroke than lock to lock on the stock box.

And whoever it was that said they do more 3 point turns.... the shorter arm isn't pulling the draglink as far as it is supposed to go. Granted, it's not "much" difference, but in these old girls, the steering radius is bad enough with stock steering, but shorten the arm and it is gonna get lots worse in a big way.

I would say that grafting the arms together would be the best bet. You need to get somebody who KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING to do it though. If you weld Forged Steel, you have to know how to re-temper it correctly, or else it reverts to mild soft, or gets brittle, or any number of bad things. People do it, but it's not good.

Ya know, I just had a thought, you think we could install the box low, with the arm pointed up, for better clearance of a 390/blockhugger headers, and ground clearance?
WAIT, It struck me, that wouldn't work. It would make the steering go backwards. Damn. I can't do that! It sure would make life easier if I could...

Anybody ever try to put the toyota box (or one similar) up in front (of a straight axle) like it was in the toyota?

See, my biggest thing is that it looks like it wont fit with my headers, as low profile as they are... Maybe I should look again...

OH! yeah, I just remembered something that I was totally bewildered by...
The Mustang 2 power rack... is supposed to go in front of the axle. To turn left, it pushes the left wheel's endlink. Because the steering linkage on a straight axle is BEHIND the axle, the same motion would make it steer Backwards. That would be BAD. How have you guys been dealing with this? Have you swapped the horns that the tie rod connects to, so they point forward, or what? this doesn't make sense. IT almost seems like you would have to put in a one-off gear-drive reverser or some freaky crap like that....

grabber64 · Post by **grabber64** » January 29, 2008, 8:41 pm

hey, thanks for verifying that. i was thinking that in the back of my head when i had replied back to this page. i have too many gears turning right now with classes and can't get out and really think it through on the truck.

one article i had ran across and i think it is on fordtruk.com if not then it is on one of these ford truck forums, but there was a guy who cut up both pitman arms and welded them together and then stuck it in the oven i believe to 400 degrees?? don't quote me but i believe that is how this article went so to harden this steel again. truthfully it looked bad that is if you want to show your work. so i wouldn't think it would be something that you could brag on but more of something to go cheap on. i guess a person could bondo it all in to make it show worthy but then again you might wanna break down for the 100 bucks to get it new, nice, and visible.

blackagatha · Post by **blackagatha** » January 29, 2008, 11:58 pm

hmmm I dunno 'bout that. I don't think 400 is enough to do much of anything.... If it was, your wife's muffin tins would shatter after being in there for a while...

I think it has to be AT LEAST 700 degrees, and the Quench procedure has to be JUST RIGHT, with the right kind/temp of fluid. (generally either oil or water)

My dad welded a drag link one time I think, but he had his friend over, who was a certified Nuclear Welder that believed he knew what he was doing. He was going over it REAL heavy with a torch, and finally said "WELD IT NOW" when he thought it was good. It never failed, but it's hard tellin really.

Fact is, Most people that go weldin their forged steel don't have any idea what they're doin, and I don't really know if I've ever heard of somebody makin somethin break.... I'd just assume be on the safe side though.

Last weekend, I met a dude with a built-up ratrod, he had welded brackets for the front suspension directly to the straight axle. It bothered me. It looked lovely, but looks can be deceiving. For all we know he got Zero penetration with his weld and its gonna crack off....

GLindley · Post by **GLindley** » January 30, 2008, 10:44 am

Are we talking about "cast" iron or "forged" steel? There are no special, out of the ordinary requirements for welding forged steel. Where I work we even special order forgings to be welded to the tanks we fabricate and there are no special ASME specs for welding processes. Now cast iron is a horse of a different color. I have only welded cast iron one time about 25 years ago. Here's aLINK I found about welding cast iron.

blackagatha · Post by **blackagatha** » January 30, 2008, 7:09 pm

the lincoln electric site is good, but not enough info in it. That FAQ page was pretty good, but there arent enough topics... I wish there was something on Forged steel.

Honestly I don't know much about forged steel. All I know is that a specific heat treatment makes it hard and durable.

I also know that I de-tempered a car spring to mild steel using a torch and a hammer. It was no longer anything special.

I would hate to weld something together that really needs to be forged steel, and have a section of it be reverted to mild steel and bend.

I would assume that the brackets welded to the tanks are likely NOT critical. I would think that they are forged for wear resistance, in the bolt holes or whatever, but being they are welded to mild steel, it wouldn't matter if they partially revert to mild steel.

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » January 30, 2008, 7:28 pm

explanation of forging process
http://www.jsw.co.jp/en/product/materia ... nuf_e.html

cool video on this page
http://www.artmetal.com/blog/quique/200 ... ge_welding

grabber64 · Post by **grabber64** » January 30, 2008, 7:35 pm

i'll get an expert oppinion on these two parts this weekend and let you guys know what i come up with. i do know a guy that welds tie rod ends but they go back and forth with the weld. this situation is different it goes against the weld. this guy i read about had cut both ends and placed it inside of a quarter inch plate so it is a solid piece. in my mind, that is ugly. and i can't see cutting it in the middle and welding them together being strong enough. well, not for me to drive on it.

if a person really wanted to jerry it, then they could notch the shaft like the original. use the ford pinion with the nut and bolt and weld it on also. it would be permanent for the most part but how many times do you take off your steering box. that weld wouldn't look back if you are a decent welder.

i personally think i am going to try the short pitman arm first to see how it really is compared to the standard box and arm on it now. honestly, if end to end turns on the toyo box is shorter than the standard box and if the aftermarket arm is the same then you still aren't going to get what you had anyways. i would think. the aftermarket arm would have to be longer than the factory arm. then again maybe the gearing in the toyo box travels as much as the standard box with less turns of the wheel.

how about i just shut up and put the truck and toyo box to the test and let you guys know.

Post by **Greg D** » January 30, 2008, 10:25 pm

There is nothing wrong with having the 2 pieces welded together, as long as it's done properly. Go to a reputable welding shop with it, tell them it's forged and what it's for and have them do it, it'll be fine.

grabber64 · Post by **grabber64** » February 1, 2008, 3:19 pm

alright folks. here is the answer to question on this pitman arm. now, this info is from a guy who does this stuff for a living on street rods and custom cars.

you take both ends cut them after you have them measured to whatever length you want. taper both of the welding together ends back so you can build up the weld which also gives you more grabbing power of your weld. now after you have your ends tapered and right before you weld, heat each end of the pitman arms up to about red hot so to make the weld penitrate deeper. build your welds up to normal shaft demensions or build up if you like.

this guy also said some of these places would require a trade in pitman arm when buying this conversion set-up, which would only mean they most likely were doing the same and making another out of your old one.

this is what i am going to do. this little piece alone will give me back 1/6th of my welder's cost. when i do this, that is if no one out there hasn't got it done first. i will take some pics so others out there can see it done.

ICEMAN6166 · Post by **ICEMAN6166** » February 1, 2008, 4:23 pm

i agree with the above procedure. the chamfering and pre-heating will insure a good penetration of the weld. i have 2 good friends who do this type welding on a regular basis and that is how they do it.

Truckfarmer · Post by **Truckfarmer** » February 1, 2008, 10:10 pm

I had a 58 F100 that had the Toyota box on it. The lower part of the Ford pitman arm was welded to the upper part of the Toyota arm. They were the same size as the stock Ford part when finished. Both pieces were drilled and a pin was inserted. The 2 parts were slid over the pin and then welded with the large chamfer ground in both pieces for better weld penetration. Because most of the weld was below the surface, the pitman arm could ground smooth for appearance.

blackagatha · Post by **blackagatha** » February 3, 2008, 1:19 am

grabber64 wrote:if end to end turns on the toyo box is shorter than the standard box and if the aftermarket arm is the same then you still aren't going to get what you had anyways. i would think

well, chances are, I would think, that the toy box has a quicker ratio- more arc of steering arm with less turns.

I'm pretty sure we can never get better than stock radius with the straight axles- the axle is physically no capable of swiveling the spindles any farther. Steel hits steel.

blackagatha · Post by **blackagatha** » February 3, 2008, 1:21 am

oh yeah, my dad had a machine shop do a pitman arm or draglink once- they ground it down like pencils, like described, heated, welded, maybe heat treated again, not sure, then welded a sleeve over it. Sleeve is probably overkill, but who knows.