302 and 351w

[slickmainer]

guy rebuilding my 351w called and gave me some bad news, cracked walls, lobes bad on cam and the heads would cost more to redo than to buy new ones. All told it would be way more than originally expected.
BUT, he the builder has a runner 302 (points, better cam, 4bbl, headers, (REAR Sump) that was rebuilt about 4 years ago and has about 15000 miles on it. The 302 would be way cheaper than a rebuild of the 351w and I think I would need a front sump, but are there other things to watch for if I go the 302 route? I width an issue? it would still mount up to my c4 since we are in the same family which is good, but as for as experience, what should I be aware of....or is it really as simple as drop in and go?

much appreciated
gregg

[ICEMAN6166]

i would buy or find an oilpan and drop it in.

[LM14]

Tranny will bolt up fine.

Differences between a 302 and 351W? Deck is 1" higher on a 351W so some parts won't interchange:

1. Intake
2. Oil Pan
3. Distributor
4. Oil Pump Drive
5. Oil Pump
6. Oil pump pickup
7. some accessory mounts won't interchange depending on what you are using
8. Pulleys may be different
9. All 351W are 28oz imbalance, 302 can be 28 or 50oz imbalance
10. Balance will effect your use of flex plate or harmonic balancer use

There are other differences but those are the main pieces that won't interchange/need checked out. I'm sure I've forgotten something but somebody will correct that!

SPark

[Toyz]

SPark pretty summed it up! No big issues, but it's more than just changing an oil pan. The pump pickup will also have to be exchanged, the front cover will require either drilling for a dipstick or a new (old) cover. The cover may not have provision for mechanical fuel pump mounting. The firing order may be different from earlier 302's, depending on cam. If a late 5.0 cam, the distributor drive gear should be changed if not already changed. If it is currently set up for v-belt accessory drive, no problem; if serpentine, the water pump should be reverse rotation.
Other than those minor caveats, all will fit well. 302's, especially later 5.0's, are great engines, but they're NOT a 351
Paul

[Toyz]

Gregg,
IMO a lot depends on the engine and price. If his asking price approaches that of a quality 351 long block , or a short block with aftermarket heads; I personally would not consider it. On the other hand, if it already has points and 4 bbl, it's probably got an earlier cam and front cover, and 28 oz balance, so the concerns about front cover, pulleys balancer, flywheel, and water pump rotation are probably moot.
Depending on the application it was in, the headers may not be adaptable.
Paul

[slickmainer]

said it was in a tbird

[Toyz]

That doesn't really narrow it down much without some year model info. The Fox-based and later ones would have originally had the 50 oz external balance, most would also have originally had EFI and serpentine belts.
The builder hopefully will know the pertinent details.
Paul

[jamesdfo]

Call me a sceptic, but if someone gives me bad news about MY engine, then trys to sell me what they have on hand, I'm always left wondering if my stuff is really buggered, or are they just trying to sell me their stuff?? I would ask to see your stuff, and have him show you the problems he has described.
Any where a 351 was, a 302 will go:)....if given the choice, I would be looking for a roller motor (wether 302 or 351).

[slickmainer]

im going over on tuesday to see it all. the one that does the rebuild isn't the one with the runner engine, complicated but I trust the guy

[jamesdfo]

Paul: Just as an FYI: Fox body vehicles started in 1978, Ford didn't start the switch to the 50oz deal untill part way through the '81 model year......

James

That doesn't really narrow it down much without some year model info. The Fox-based and later ones would have originally had the 50 oz external balance, most would also have originally had EFI and serpentine belts.
The builder hopefully will know the pertinent details.
Paul

[Toyz]

James , another Mea Culpa! I had discounted the gutless 4.9 of the '80/81 era. It disappeared for '82 model year Birds. While these modern day Edsels were in fact Fox bodies, there was a very limited production of 302's in a very sales-limited 3 year life span of the Bird/Cougar "Boxcars".
So, yeah, a 28 oz engine could have originated in an early Fox body Bird; if it in fact is the engine in question, my answer would be "run!" I agree completely with the sentiment expressed in your earlier post!
Paul

[jamesdfo]

Paul: I hadn't even thought of the 255's, as they are straight up POO. I had a Zephyr Z-7 with the 255, and while it LOVED cruising @ 80mph, it didn't like hills AT ALL. Another classic case of a manufacturer making a complete CRAP model, for no other reason than to bump their CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) numbers. Who else would create a 115hp V8 then equip it with 2:41 axle ratio??

[William-in-St George]

Rear sump may not be an issue. I have rear sump on my 466 4x2 with no issues. IMHO!

[slickmainer]

UPDATE: the 302 was a no go. we found a 1984 351 block that was in really good shape, so that is going to be used in place of my old 1971 block. It will get rebuilt as planned just using this other block.

[Greg D]

Roller cam 5.0 - you will never regret it.................................

[Toyz]

Roller cam 5.0 - you will never regret it.................................

Unless of course, you have my "need for speed", then you might regret anything short of a roller-cammed big-inch Windsor.
Hell, if I had my not-necessarily-reasonable choices, my non-cammer gas Fords would consist of only Limas, big Windsors and various 385-based aberrations.
The 302 is a great little proven engine made much better by the 5.0 upgrades. For my perceived needs, it's just a little lacking compared to Ford's other offerings of past eras.

As usual, just my somewhat biased opinion
Paul

[4 Baja]

Glad to hear the 5.0 is a no go!
Now you'll have piece of mind knowing you're starting with good parts and everything will bolt right back up. If any of the journals need to be turned down on the crank, you might want to option price a small stroker kit. Some are very reasonable for the increase in performance. Same if the stock heads need a lot of work. If in the budget, a set of aluminum heads with CNC'd ports would work well. A 1994 and up block would have been nice as that's when they became roller blocks. At any rate, if mostly stock parts are used, I think you will be much happier with the torque of the 351 over the 302 in your truck. Keep us updated!

[Anthony]

Gregg, are you going to rebuild your heads or buy new? Zak says the guys around here look for those early heads to use so there might just be a reason to keep them... I am looking forward to pics of this pretty new motor!!

[Anthony]

Gregg, are you going to rebuild your heads or buy new? Zak says the guys around here look for those early heads to use so there might just be a reason to keep them... I am looking forward to pics of this pretty new motor!!

[slickmainer]

the heads got rebuilt. the motor looks the same as the old one, just all new on the inside