can't get my truck to start

[mac]

well i'm getting discouraged. when i bought it it was tough to start cold. now it just won't start period. i've replaced plugs, wires, distributor cap, condensor, and rotor. got rid of the old battery cables and the positive to the starter (haven't gotten around to the ground yet.) and rebuilt the carburetor. before doing any of this i was getting some puffs of white smoke out of the carb with the cleaner off. now after doing the work above i'm getting bigger puffs of smoke and a pop, almost like a backfire and it won't catch. it almost seems like the timing is suddenly wrong? i don't know, what do you all think?

[mac]

i should also mention that when i did the plugs and wires i went wire for wire so i wouldn't screw up the firing order except at one point the wire i had going to cylinder 6 popped off the distributor and i had already taken the wire off for cylinder 4 (i started on the driver side and was on my last plug.) i kind of made an educated guess and put the two on how i thought they were and tried to start, got a backfire type sound, switched the tw, same result. so i got to studying the firing order for the 292 and assuming passenger side front of engine is #1 and driver side rear of engine is #8, the firing order is completley wrong to begin with. if it's supposed to be 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2, mines all wrong, but it ran fine before...i'm stumped.

sorry for the wordy posts!

[6166 Junkyard Dog]

Mac here is what I would do , pull # 1 plug, spin it till it pops up on compression, be sure its aligned up on lower timing mark and rotor on #1,,, I have seen where some people put dist. in wrong and then they change the location of all plug wires from the number 1 spot cause too lazy to take out dist. and put in the right spots,,

[Toyz]

Sounds like Tom's got the plan! While you are at it, grab the crankshaft pulley and rotate it in both directions until a heavy resistance is felt. This will give you are feel for the timing chain looseness. To get close on initial timing, attach a powered timing light to number 1 wire, turn the key on, and with number 1 at TDC on compression stroke as Tom stated, position the crankshaft at 6 degrees BTDC. Then, with distributor slightly loosened; rotate the distributor housing about 5 degrees, then slowly bring it back past the original point. The point where the timing light flashes will be your initial static setting. If you prefer, you can follow the same procedure without timing light and with cap off by simply watching for the points to open as the dist. is rotated.
Paul

[bird55]

FYI, remember the dist rotor rotates counterclockwise. Hence the firing order on the dist cap should match. I know you followed the old setup but check your book on firing order and plug wire setup. easy to do it wrong more than once. Check, then check again.
As mentioned timing chain "jump" is a possibility if worn or loose. Is does sounds as though you could have a SP wire out of order. Also go ahead and replace that ground wire you mentioned. It is important too.
Let us know your progress.

[mac]

all solid advice. before rotating the engine with #1 pulled i'm going to make sure that #1 cylinder goes to 1 on the distributor and rewire from that refernece point, worst case, it doesn't start and i pull the plug and manually crank. thanks for the input, i'll let you know what happens

[mac]

i used position one as a refrence point and corrected the firing order and attemted to start. backfire and puff of white smoke aren't happening. it cranks and a few times it caught and ran for a few seconds and then died and shoots a HUGE flame out of my freshly rebuilt carb . what do you think? retard the timing in the distributor just a hair? if so how do i do that? the old plugs were gapped out at .050+. the wires had been laying on the exhaust manifold and the insulation burnt. coil was way rough looking; like circa '64 rough. is it possible i improved the ignition so much it's firing to early?

[Toyz]

Might want to verify point gap again; it is possible the distributor cam, or the distributor itself, is worn unevenly, or you just did not get the points fully on the lobe when setting. Also, without verifying that the "'1" mark on the cap matches the rotor, it may well be it was set up with #1 in whatever position worked without repositioning the distributor. Go ahead and run thru the suggested actions; you may well find the problem.
Just for a check, you might also pull the fuel inlet screen from the carb inlet just to verify it has not picked up some trash. That will also tell you whether fuel is getting to the carb, although without testing, you will be guessing at pressure and volume. The 292's will run with less than four psi pressure (and don't like more), so any amount should be sufficient to at least start.
Good luck with it!
Paul

[mac]

i have new points in a box but i've never done them so i didn't attempt it by myself in the dark, haha. i assume the fuel inlet screen is in the fuel line going into the passenger side front of my 2100 carb? i don't recall seeing a screem in there when i took it apart!

[Toyz]

You aren't the first to overlook it!
Paul

[6166 Junkyard Dog]

Bring the spark plug gap back to .035,,, only time I cranked it up to .050 or beyond is with electronic ignition or hot coil, if spiting back a flame through carb, timing not advanced enough, also check to be dist. is tight I cannot tell or write on paper how to set points/timing cause I do it by ear and sight, points I set by eye, timing set by ear ,like advance till it runs good, run it till gets real hot, give it about a minute if starts hard then back timing off a little at a time till it seems to crank easier also when getting running and you crack the throttle hard there should be no hesitation at all,, also check to be sure vacuum advance is working OK as well, be sure no open vacuum hoses or vacum fittings not blocked off, make sure the gas in tank smells like gas and not dead gas, also be sure when cranking with dist. cap off that the rotor button is turning at a steady pace, recheck on the connections in dist. where points/condenser is good connections

[Toyz]

That .050" may have been the original cold starting problem. definitely close them up to.035" if the new ones are gapped that wide. That wide gap may explain the initial fire-up, then dying; once the starter is released the primary side of the coil is operating on reduced voltage thru the resistor wire, and probably will not consistently fire that plug gap.
Paul

[mac]

i believe the wide gap contributed for sure. new plugs i installed were gapped a little larger than .035. i got out there earlier and turned the distributor a hair clockwise (being a distributor newb my thought process was the distributor turns CCW so CCW would advance spark, so i went CW, further advancing the spark ) and it stumbled worse when it would catch and shot even more flame when it died so i obviously need to go back to where it was plus a hair counterclockwise. i think that will get it at least idling to where i can tune the timing by ear and then do some adjustments on my carb. but that's for tomorrow. i live in an apartment complex and the 3 foot tall flame and backfires at 9-10 pm are probably pretty annoying.


thanks for all the help! results tomorrow.

[Casey 65]

A new condenser doesn't mean a good condenser. I've experienced that a few times. Put in the new one, no start. Pull the old one out of the trash, started up. Just a thought...

[Toyz]

If I have one that's partially flooded, I temporarily run a jumper from the battery to the plus side of coil to give it full battery voltage after starting. This may help it keep running while warming up. Two caveats, though, the engine will keep running even with key off until the jumper is disconnected, and, long term use that way will shorten point and coil life.
Paul

[charliemccraney]

It sounds like you're just guessing about the plug wire installation at this point. That won't work. You need to start all over. You seem to understand the cylinder numbering and firing order. Turn the engine so that #1 is at tdc on compression. Remove the distributor cap and see where the rotor is pointing. Mark the appropriate terminal on the cap. It may be the terminal identified as 1 and it may not. With this determined, install the plug wires, counterclockwise, according to the firing order. Then go back, trace all of the wires and make sure you have it right. All Y blocks are the same so if it still doesn't start, it's not the firing order.

Have you checked to see if you are getting a spark?

[mac]

found tdc and pulled the cap. the rotor was pointing to what was cylinder 2 so i pulled all the wires and made that #1 and went from there. nothing is happening while cranking as far as puffs of smoke, backfires, or anything, but it just won't start.

haven't had anyone around to help check for spark.

[Toyz]

Remove the dist cap and rotor. Bump the engine over until the points are closed ( it may take a few trys by yourself). Then take a pencil or other non-metallic object and move the points arm away from the dist shaft with the key on . You should see a spark as the points are forced open. It sounds as if you're on the right track. If you haven't re-gapped the pluss, that may be what is keeping it from starting.
Paul

[charliemccraney]

All you need to check for spark is a remote starter switch (or carefully use a screw driver to make the connection). It's best to do it while the starter is engaged. It is entirely possible that there is enough juice for a spark without the starter but not when the starter is turning.
You can use a timing light to verify that a current is passing through the wire, but it is best to look at the spark.

[BarnieTrk]

Mac,
What is the status of your battery?
I've chased starting issues only to find out the battery wasn't getting the job done.... then felt dumb about not checking it out earlier.

If you have another vehicle or spare battery, swap out the battery and give it whirl.....

BarnieTrk